What Audiobooks Make Possible: The Girl with the Louding Voice

Please note: This episode discusses themes from The Girl with the Louding Voice, including child marriage, abuse and violence towards young women, which some listeners may find upsetting.

Another Untypical Parent Podcast Bookshelf episode, this time with listener Carly Cavilla Hunt. 

These episodes were only meant to be around 15 minutes long, but somehow, as always, I get completely drawn into the conversation and listening to other people.

This one was no different.

Carly joined me to talk about The Girl with the Louding Voice by Abi Daré, beautifully narrated by Adjoa Andoh. But our conversation became about so much more than one book.

We talked about the stigma that listening to an audiobook somehow doesn't count as reading, and why that's something we both challenge.

As a dyslexic person, audiobooks have opened up a whole world of books that I'd previously found inaccessible. For Carly, who is visually impaired, losing more of her sight also meant grieving the loss of reading in the way she had always known it. Together we explore what audiobooks make possible, not just for us, but for so many people who access stories differently.

Carly describes her reaction to The Girl with the Louding Voice as visceral. Just hearing the title brings back a physical response. Listening to her talk about Adunni, the story and the narration was so powerful that I went and bought the audiobook straight after we finished recording.

We also found ourselves talking about the role books can play when life feels overwhelming. They don't fix the hard things, but they can give us space to breathe, escape for a while and remind us that hope and beauty still exist, even when life feels heavy.

As if that wasn't enough for one episode, we finished by talking about Carly's work supporting parents to apply for Disability Living Allowance (DLA) and Personal Independence Payment (PIP). Drawing on her years working for the DWP and Citizens Advice, she now helps families navigate what can be an incredibly overwhelming process by helping them tell the whole story, not just fill in another form.

You can probably see why we went on for longer than 15 minutes.

I love these conversations. Every guest - and every listener who joins me for a Bookshelf episode - teaches me something new.

Thank you for joining me, Carly.

Please note: This episode discusses themes from The Girl with the Louding Voice, including child marriage, abuse and violence towards young women, which some listeners may find upsetting.

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Transcript

Welcome And Sponsor Support

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Antypical Parent Podcast. It's a podcast of parents in additional needs families, and I'm your host, Liz Evans. This is the place to find your reassurance that there is no such thing as a perfect parent. It's here to make the hard bits feel lighter and the good bits brighter. Just quickly before we get started, are you looking for practical ways to support a child experiencing school anxiety? This season I'm delighted to let you know that the Untypical Parent Podcast is sponsored by Terry Wise from Wise Inclusion and Rachel Helm from Helm Education Consultancy. They are experts in inclusive education and supporting children who struggle to access school. Together, they run webinars and workshops to help parents and schools work together and improve outcomes for children experiencing emotionally based school anxiety. If you're supporting a child struggling with school attendance, check the link in the show notes to find out more about how Terry and Rachel can support you. Thanks for being here. Let's get started.

Why Books Belong In This Podcast

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Hello and welcome back to the Untypical Parent Podcast, the bookshelf episodes, which are the new episodes that we've got in between the longer guest episodes, where we are talking about books. Now, people might think this is a little bit of a weird thing for me to be talking about when I am dyslexic, but I have discovered the world of books through audiobooks. But what I find is that I don't often hear about new books. So what I did was I invited the community that listened to the podcast to come and tell me about the books that mean something to them. They had bonus points if they could get it in audio. And I have been inundated actually with people coming forward saying that books are really important to them. Because just like the podcast has been set up as a support for parents in additional needs families, I also think that books can be an amazing support for us in all sorts of ways, gaining knowledge, but also a bit of an escapism. And I just wanted to talk about books and the books that have meant something to the listeners that listen to the Untypical Parent Podcast. So today I have the lovely Carly has joined me as a listener to the podcast.

Losing Print And Choosing Audio

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Hi Carly, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Now you've got a bit of a background in books, haven't you? So your background in books started off that you were selling books?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, I was a bookseller, so I was a self-employed bookseller for ten and a half years, eleven years.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

A long time.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

And then something something kind of happened for you. What happened that moved you away from selling books?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

So I am visually impaired. Um I have been all my life, I've had slight challenges all my life. Um, but those challenges changed slightly in the last five years and moved into a I can never say the word, into a degenerative condition. So whereas before I had been able to, um, I could I could read things up close or I could, you know, I could enlarge things. All of a sudden I was finding that because it was kind of a perfect storm of things. So I've got sight degeneration, I was losing sight in, I've lost the sight completely in this eye. Um well I've got I've lost useful sight in this eye, but I have kind of a band of sight because I've got double vision as well, then it brings this band of not very useful sight on top of this picture here. So it meant that actually if I looked at words, then they'd be dancing around. So all of a sudden it wasn't just a case of not being able to see them, it was a case of not being able to focus on them. Um and it yeah, it kind of broke my heart a little bit. I found that I was grieving books massively. Um and I saw I continued my business for a few years after that. Um, we didn't have access to audiobooks, it was just physical books that we were selling. But I think because there was such a a kind of disconnect, because I wasn't able to whereas before I had binged these books that you know and get a book delivery and I'd be grabbing them out and I'd be, oh, look at this, look at this, and I'd be pouring through the young adult fiction and things like that. All of a sudden I found I couldn't do that. Um and the books that we had, they weren't widely available on audiobooks, so some of our books were, um, many of them weren't, and because a lot of them were primarily children's books as well, what you're looking at, pictures, activities, that kind of thing, it just didn't translate. And so it kind of just took a natural, a natural finish towards the end. And uh yeah, I I kind of lost outside of it.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

We had a chat prior to this, and you were talking a bit about there's almost kind of a bit of I don't know if the snobbery is the right word, but if you don't actually read the book, then you're not kind of a proper book reader. And I think for me, I've always shied away from books because they were such hard work. They just I hated it. I've always hated reading. And I was then started to listen to books and I thought, well, I'm still not reading. So that's not a proper read. But I just kind of wondered if that's if you you felt that change, Carl, when you kind of moved from reading in a traditional way to, I presume, accessing books now through audio.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Massively. To the point that I've had people comment on so I will join in on social media or join in with threads about books, so I will join in and say that I've accessed it by audiobook. I've had people say, but that's not reading. And so I'll come back and say, Well, actually, I'm visually impaired. And so they get very quickly, they're kind of, oh, sorry, I didn't hear that. Yeah. But actually, I it I'm I'm lucky in the sense that I've got a, you know, a badge on a very not not visible, does it, but a recognized if you like disability. Yeah. But I also have children with um like severe school trauma and burnout. I've got a child that is um ADHD. I've got children that don't access books in that way. And I was finding that actually they were kind of, you know, the the judgment was going in that. So they're not sitting and reading books, so they're coming around from school feeling damaged because they're not reading books. And I I became very passionate very quickly about the fact that for me, I think the importance of books is in the words and the connection and the storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

And actually, words can be accessed in so many ways. And like the the shame that we have about not picking up a physical book and reading it, just because I'm visually impaired. I mean, I'm also ADHD. Actually, that means that I prefer accessing audiobooks sometimes when I just want something in the in the background, when I can't sit and focus, when I can't when I'm going for a walk and I want to have, you know, I want to keep my mind quiet, so I've got a book there. There was so much, and I I think I have used the word snobbery, and I I did I saw it within my industry where people would be writing posts about how it's so wrong that children aren't reading these books and they're not taking these books home. But actually, these children are listening to podcasts, or they are texting, or listening to instructions, or they're writing instructions, or reading instructions, or and they are accessing so many different worlds in that way. And for me, that's what books are about. It's about that kind of that building of empathy, that recognition of what else is out there, that that sense of connection, and that can come from so much more than a physical book.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

So I suppose as well when you think back to storytelling, your storytelling probably there was you know books, and there's been a way of writing and creating stories even back to cavemen. It would be in pictures, or it would be people telling the stories verbally. Yeah, that's the way that we did it. And I think a bit like you were talking about is I've I always felt that that books were inaccessible to me. They they weren't there wasn't someone that this wasn't something that I could access. And it's only been, you know, I'm now in my mid maybe late 40s. Um that I'm still hanging on to the mid-40s, Carly. Um that my mid to late forties, that I've I suddenly feel like I've opened up this whole new world of books, and I feel like I've I've really lost that. You know, I've lost how many years of being able to access storytelling and you know, learning for me was always, you know, people get very upset with me because when I get books, I highlight them and fold pages down and do terrible things to them that people get very upset about. But it was the only way I could access them. I'd often start a story, then just flip to the end because I'd just think, well, is it going to be worth the effort? And then it would sit on the side for a year and I hadn't read it. And so it's just uh audiobooks to me, I think, is just amazing. And I I took, I suppose I kind of call it in my own way, it's untraditional reading, if that's even such a word, is it's not traditional reading, but I'm still accessing books, and that's really important.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah, no, absolutely. I call it reading. Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Good,

The Girl With The Louding Voice

SPEAKER_00 8:20

we'll go for that. So you came on today to talk about a really special book to you. There's a book very particularly that you wanted to talk about, and it's called The Girl with the Louding Voice. And this is by a an author called Abby Dare. Have I pronounced her name right?

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Dare. Dare an accent over there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

I only had that because I Googled it just before I came on.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Oh, do you know what I Googled it? And they didn't tell me that bit. Thanks. I'm glad you got a good Google response. Um, Carly, tell us a bit about this book, because I know this book is is is really important to you.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, and do you know what? It's a strange one. So touching back on what you said, we had a meeting before we kind of came on a pre-meeting, and I'd actually, I'd forgotten that I'd mentioned this book. Um, there were two books in my head, and I was kind of debating which two which one I was going to talk about about these two books. And you said to me, Oh, but you named another one as well. You named the girl with a louding voice. And it instantly, and it did it straight like then, it it evoked a physical reaction in me. It makes me saying it makes me go goosebumpy. Um, and it makes me it was just one of those books that sticks with you. Um now I have the typical I don't know if it's typical Naruto Vergent thing, typical busy mum of three thing, typical just uh just Carly thing. But I can't always remember things by details, so I thought, right, I better go back and visit revisit this book and listen to it again. Started listening to it again, and for me, a big part of what makes this book, the story is beautiful, but the narration is it just transports you to another world. So you're kind of you're in it straight away. The the main the main character is a young girl called Aduni. Um and the way they say her name and the way she says her name, it it it kind of gives me goosebumps. It's a young girl.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Scotty do the narration.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Well, do you know what? No, I don't think she does the narration. Um double checking them and she does. But it is a Nigerian, it's set in Nigeria, it's set in um what's the name of the village? So it's between two places, so it's her village and between Lagos. She does between the two of them. Um it's a Nigerian narrator, um, and she just tells it so beautifully. The young girl, she's a she's comes from a typical kind of Nigerian family in a small village, and she ends up being the well doesn't end up right at the beginning, there's an arranged marriage for her. Um and it's kind of the story of the strength that's gonna go back onto a bit of a feminist thing here, but the strength that women have to find from such an early age. The the the way that she is treated, and don't get wrong, she's she's at an extreme. We're lucky over here we don't have that kind of or there's not kind of prevail prevalence of arranged marriages, but it makes you realise how first of all, how privileged we are to be away from that, but also how much of it kind of runs underneath when I think about my 12-year-old daughter, how much she's having to face already as a young woman that that her brothers haven't had to face. Um and you see Adonnie go through these these kind of some of them are rites of passages, some of them are just complete abuses. Um, and you see her getting stronger and stronger and louder and louder, it's the girl with a louder voice. You see her suddenly starting to stand up, but she can't stand injustice or unfairness. So she everybody else is fine, and I can I kind of get this a little bit, you know, when you get that what is the world going? And you see Adonis' life just being taken over by I'm not standing for this anymore, this is not fair, this is not how things should be. Um, and whilst it's about a very different scenario in terms of saying arranged marriage, actually marriage of a child as well, she's only 14 or 15 when she's she's married off. Um, very, very different in those scenarios. It it kind of translates to what so many mothers that I I see in our kind of arena are having to do, what so many children are having to do, this kind of advocacy, this kind of standing up against something that is just so evidently wrong. Um, but but finding the voice to do that, and she is just the most beautiful character. She has this innocence about her, but she also has this fire and this passion, and it just transports you to another world. Some of it is really hard listening to. There are some things that go on that okay that no young woman should have to face. But in amongst that, there is friendship and there is advocacy and there is kind of fashion uh passion and and fight and and she still has this childhood, she still has this really childish nature around her. So there's some really lovely fun parts and some real kind of sparks of innocence that you you just remember about being a teenage girl and suddenly discovering what the world is about. It was just one of those books that transported me. Um and it I think audiobook brings it even kind of even. I think this is one of those books that you have to listen to on audio to really get the full the full picture. I can't imagine. As much as I've loved reading a, you know, I I can imagine the hardback being beautiful and and having that feeling of having it in your hands, but actually being able to just sit and listen to her words and listen to the world around her and and kind of have that feeling that you're in it. It's oh, it's just an incredible book.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

That sounds really interesting, doesn't it? Because actually, it's not often you hear people say, This is actually better, probably in audio, because it it transports me into the situation or trans me, it ports me into the store and I can feel it.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Um, and often people say, Oh, that yeah, it's much better as a book. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it the other way around. And I think for me, I would always say it's better in audio because I can't I never finish it when it's in a book.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

No, I think this one is for everybody. I think there are so many the accent and hearing, hearing the because you can hear the there's a lot of kind of background noise in it, so it sounds like it's you transport yourself there. But there are also so many words there I wouldn't know how to pronounce as well. So hearing them done properly, but I'd I'd spend so much time, I'd I'd read it and then I'd have to Google it, how do I pronounce that? And then I'd be practicing it and then I have to be repeating it in my head. This way, you just have it delivered to you exactly how it's meant to be by the author. Like it just takes you into this was what I was envisaging envisaging, this is what I wanted you to hear. Here it is, so yeah, it's sublime.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

I remember talking to you before this, and you and you said you had this almost physical reaction to an internal reaction, even just by saying the name of the book. What what does the book bring, Carly? What what you know when you read that, what what was it doing for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:57

It do you know, I think the biggest thing for me was connection. It it transported me. It and I've got I've got two other friends. I've got more than two, I probably didn't have many more than two friends actually. I've got two other friends that also listen to it on audiobook. They're they're sighted, they're not just they listen to it on audiobook because they choose to listen to it on audiobook. And they loved it as much as me as well. Um, so it's not just that I think the book I it it took me in you you just fall in love with the character. It it has you kind of rooting for her right from the beginning. It has you wincing, thinking, oh gosh, I know what's you know, what's coming now. It has you breaking your heart for her, it has you feeling really kind of ramped up and angry and yes, we're gonna we're gonna take a stand. It also has you kind of like, oh you get protective, but don't please don't, you know, don't take too much of a stand. I don't want you to get the repercussions. It just I think this is probably one of the books where I've had the strongest ever connection with a character where actually that character has become and in fact the the two friends that I talk about it where they will I'll I'll say her name and they will straight away, oh my gosh, yeah, I love her. I don't need to just this I've I've never found a character that has been created in such a way that I have just felt like like she's real, like she is there, like she's yeah, and I don't know if part of that is being maybe coming from a you know a troubled teen background and kind of resonating with that. Maybe it's the advocacy side, maybe it's just that the author has done such a beautiful job of describing this world that you feel you're part of it, but she just you just fall

Escapism Hope And Finding Beauty

SPEAKER_01 16:30

in love with her.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

I think what's so interesting, isn't it? But is when we read things like that, you know, often you know, we were talking again before we came on, we're talking about ESOS packages and life and navigating worlds with with kids that have got those additional needs and and even our own needs as well, is that it's very, very difficult often to find time and space to do that, to to because it almost sounds like this book takes you away from all of that.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yep, it completely and actually, and I'd I I'd totally forgotten how potentially triggering some of the subjects were, and you you very quickly get into because there's this arranged marriage, you very quickly get into a situation where you're thinking about a young girl that shouldn't be experiencing what she's experiencing. But you come away from the book almost kind of like you've forgotten about that side of it, and all of you all you've remembered is being absorbed in this world with her. I'd g I I'd I'd have it on whilst I'm cooking or you know, whilst I'm kind of tottering in the kitchen and just there, and you you don't want to stop it. You don't want you I suddenly found myself like I'm gonna I'm gonna go and do this because I can put my audiobook on for that, or I'm gonna go and do that because I can have my headphones on. And yeah. It was just pure escapism. And even though it was about fairly heavy subjects, you still it's it's not always about and I think that's part of what it is. It's about heavy subjects, but they bring in this lightness as well, they bring in the beauty. She still hasn't lost her her kind of joy for all of the the beautiful things that are out there, despite the fact she's going through something that is probably harder than 90% of people will go through. There is still this innocent, this love for life, this and despite this, she still doesn't lose the things might be hard for me, but I still need to stand up for the people that it's harder for, or not harder for, but that a different kind of hard.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yeah. And I think sometimes when I listen to audios as well, there's there's something I take away from a book that affects me personally. It might be around my personality, it might be a way I view the world. Um that I think you can take those things from books that or listen to an audio. And I wonder again, listening to you talk, it feels like there's almost you've taken a piece of that away with you that possibly has had an impact on your life or your view of life or how you manage things.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

And I think I think the odd thing with it is that I didn't even, I hadn't recognized it as such until you mentioned the name. And I I knew because I'd I'd obviously said to you, Oh, there are three books, and I'd forgotten that there are three books, I'd forgotten this one, which is crazy because it is and it the second you said it, I I couldn't tell you what it what I I couldn't put a name on what it is that I've taken away from it. And but I think it's only now we're delving into it that it is that kind of that recognition that she still has this trust in the beauty of life. This you know, she still has this wonder. And I like I'm losing my sight, um, but I still my phone is full of photos of squirrels and trees and flowers, and my favorite thing to do is to be is is to just look at things. And I see a different version now. I see a a distorted version, but I d what I see still brings so much kind of and I think maybe it reminded me I I don't want to say I'm the heroine of a book or anything, but I think it reminded me that actually I'm really lucky not to have lost that. Things have been hard in terms of obviously the kind of my own needs, but helping young people navigate a world that is not made for them is really hard. As you know, as a parent, it it breaks your heart over and over and over. Um and I think there is the danger that it could make you angry at everything. And I think maybe that's what it is. I may think maybe it's this reflection that actually, like I'm watching what she does or listening to what she does, or she has got it so much worse in terms of what she's experiencing, but she's still finding this beauty and wonder, so maybe that's what it is. Maybe it's that reminder that we still get to choose to but marvel at the squirrel that's on the bare feed, or we still get to choose to look my tomato seedlings are popping out, border. You know, my son has just sent me a message because he just wanted me to, you know, he just he thought of something, but he thought I'd like the little bits of magic that are still there. Yeah. Yeah. And I think she kind of reminds you to to keep that at the heart of what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

And that's so important, isn't it? I think uh you've just hit on a really important point, and I I bet you there's lots of parents listening to this that are in the depths of stuff that as we do, we go through crisis um at times and we end up down some deep holes sometimes and some pretty deep dark holes at times. You know, it's reminding ourselves that sometimes that that doesn't last, there will be a way out. Um at the time it's really difficult. But you know, something like reading these books, and they're not the answer, but they give you those that kind of that little bit of hope back that I think when you you're in the depths of it and you're being, you know, feel like you're being beaten down by a system constantly is hope very quickly gets up and leads. Um and I think it's nice to to remind ourselves that there is some hope and and by reading and through stories that that you can get that hope back.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Without a doubt, I kind of I I think I try and take each day as this is gonna be a hard day, so I need to make sure there's there's there's something that's filling your cup up. Um what can like that's that's gonna be a book because actually every bit that my cup's filled up that little Bit more, it gives me that little bit more kind of determination and power and just resolve to write, okay, I I can keep doing this. I can, you know, if if we surround, and it's I don't get me wrong, I know it's not that easy. And there are days where I think I can't find beauty in anything today because somebody is hurting or I am hurting, or this is all just so wrong. But then you get the days again where suddenly it seems a little bit easier. As one of those days I kind of try and fill myself up a little bit with right, let's let's give myself enough to run over into the next day and see if we can overflow and maybe run over into the the kids or or whoever it is that I'm trying to support at that time.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Yeah, absolutely. And I think sometimes those books just give us a chance as well, don't they, to whether people call it disassociate or whatever it is, but actually at times when you're in crisis, it's getting a bit of relief in whatever way that is, and whether that's reading a comedy book or something that uplifts you or whatever it takes your fancy as a you know that for your personality and what you need in that moment, but actually gives you 20 minutes, half an hour time out, even like as you say, going for a walk or when you're doing the dishes, because nine times out of ten, our brains are so full of have I done this form, have I rung that person, what am I doing for what you know, but actually yeah, just giving yourself to d some time to immerse yourself in something completely different.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah, it's so important.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

What I'm gonna do here is I mean, for me, this sounds amazing. I'm off to download it because I think just it listening to you talk, Carly, makes me go, I want to listen to this book.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I hope you're not disappointed that. Oh, I'm sure I won't be.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

And do you know what? Even I I think it's just one of those things, isn't it? It's a bit like when I say in the podcast is you you take what works for you and you leave what doesn't. And this might not be the book for everybody, but it might be for some people, and it might give them the smile and the and the lift that it that it obviously gives you. I can see and almost feel through the screen, Carly, what that makes you feel. And I'm jealous, I want some of that, so I'm off to read it.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Yeah, going back.

DLA And PIP Form Support

SPEAKER_00 23:58

What I was gonna do just right at the end is Carly, you actually do as part of your job now, I'm just gonna give you a couple of seconds just to talk about some of the things that you do offer other people, because you offer you offer help to support families.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

I do. So I work, I'm I'm self-employed, as I think many of us in in this kind of arena have to be, choose to be. Um and I actually support neurodinemergent families to apply for disability living allowance or for disability benefits. Um I worked for the DWP for twelve, twelve on a bit years. Um I worked for citizens advice. I spent a lot of time kind of on that side of it, and the decision-making side on the kind of and then coming out of that, I obviously had my own health needs where I needed to access. I I could no longer work as I as I used to, I was self-employed for a long time, but I still wasn't earning quite enough and I was entitled to pit. That was a huge difficulty to kind of say that. But so I went through that and realized that actually disability benefits are inaccessible to so many, it's absolutely ridiculous the amount of overwhelm that it causes to not to not necessarily to people that that would struggle with forms or the for any number of reasons. Having to list your child's deficits and having to sit and write for page after page um is just horrendous. And so I've been doing it for a long time to support kind of friends and family and and other people that have said, Oh, I saw you offer some help on this, can I and and finding out right, okay, it's time to I need to step back into my own kind of work. So actually I'm gonna offer that as a paid service for the people that choose to access it. And that way, so I do we do it more as a storytelling session. I'm big I'm big on words, I'm bigger storytelling. So we have a Zoom session where we talk about um the whole picture of your child, so everything. So they're kind of sparks on their their quirks that so the struggles obviously are in there because that's what needed for the form, but actually it's more about getting this whole idea of of who your child is and what they need to you know to make life as accessible as possible. And then I translate that into the language that some people find difficult to do um in terms of the the form and complete the DLA form. So that is my that's what I'm doing. And yeah, I'm I'm enjoying it. It's heavy work. Um I'm sad that it's needed, it shouldn't be needed. Um in fact one of the things that I'm doing is putting together more kind of resources for people that that want to be able to navigate it by themselves but but can't. Um, but that's on one of my to-do lists. Yes, and I've got about 79 to-do lists, but yeah, but yeah, that's so that's that's where I find myself at the moment, and that's why I'm yeah, that's why I'm that sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

What I will do is in the show notes, we're obviously going to tag in Abby as the author to the girl with the louding voice.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

But I'll also feel like I'm connected to a celebrity already, even though it's only Instagram, but we'll tag her in.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Hopefully she'll see it. It'd be great if she does. And I will also tag in Carly, just in case there's any of you out there that are thinking, well, I didn't even know I could apply for DLA. And when we say DLA would mean divided living allowance. Um, so I'll put Carly's notes there as well. I'm just thinking, actually, Carly, whether we get you back onto the podcast generally to have a chat about DLA and PIP.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

I'm I'm more than happy to.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

I'm and I think there could be a lot of families out there that like you, I've been through DLA for my son, but also Pip for myself. And um they're not easy roads to travel, those ones, and as you say, can be quite difficult. So I'm just wondering, you and I'll chat.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

We'll chat.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I just think I just wonder whether actually that could be a really important one for parents and they'd be really interested in that.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah, it's an important one. I think there's so much shame and also so much kind of doubt about actually is what I'm dealing with. Is that something that's a good need? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

And it's it's that validation, I think. So yeah, absolutely. Let's go for

Wrap Up And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 27:46

it.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Thank you ever so much for coming on, Collie. I really appreciate it. It's been lovely to have you on and lovely to hear about the girl with the louding voice. I I'm looking forward to listening to that myself. So thank you for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Not a bribing. Thanks ever so much, Liz.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Me too. Take care.