When Sobriety Reveals ADHD with Chris Braid from The After Party

Your life can fall apart twice, once on the outside and once in your head, and you still might not know what the real issue is. I’m joined by Chris Braid, co-host of The After Party, to talk about what happened when a mental breakdown, divorce, financial pressure, chronic pain, and emergency spinal surgery collided, and how a late ADHD diagnosis finally gave a clearer map of why things happened they way they did.

As parents, many of us carry stress that makes quick coping tools feel tempting. We explore the link between neurodiversity, depression, and addiction, plus what actually helps an ADHD brain feel regulated day to day: work that fits, creativity, music, and a movement-based mindfulness ritual through Pilates and yoga.

You don't want to miss this one. 

You can find Chris on:

Instagram: The After Party Invite

Facebook: The After Party

We spoke about AA if you need further information you can find that here

Thank you to this season’s sponsors:

Terri Wyse & Rachel Helm
Together, they are offering webinars and workshops focused on EBSA for both parents and professionals

 8th July – Webinar for School Leaders

 2nd September – Webinar for Parents & Families 

16th September – Joint Workshop (Parents + Schools) 

Podcast listeners receive £5 off using this code UNTYPICALPARENT5.

The sponsors of this season of the podcast are Terri Wyse https://www.instagram.com/wyseinclusion/and Rachel Helm https://www.instagram.com/helmeducationconsultancy/. Please do reach out to them if you are supporting a child or young person struggling to access school.

Link below to go straight to Insta

The Untypical Parent Podcast

The Untypical Podcaster

Transcript

Welcome And Sponsor Support

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Antypical Parent Podcast. It's a podcast of parents in additional needs families, and I'm your host, Liz Evans. This is the place to find your reassurance that there is no such thing as a perfect parent. It's here to make the hard bits feel lighter and the good bits brighter. Just quickly before we get started, are you looking for practical ways to support a child experiencing school anxiety? This season I'm delighted to let you know that the Untypical Parent Podcast is sponsored by Terry Wise from Wise Inclusion and Rachel Helm from Helm Education Consultancy. They are experts in inclusive education and supporting children who struggle to access school. Together, they run webinars and workshops to help parents and schools work together and improve outcomes for children experiencing emotionally based school anxiety. If you're supporting a child struggling with school attendance, check the link in the show notes to find out more about how Terry and Rachel can support you. Thanks for being here. Let's get started.

Meeting Chris From The After Party

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Hello and welcome back to the Untypical Parent Podcast. I am delighted today to have somebody come join me. His name is Chris Braid, and he is the host of the radio show The After Party. Thanks for coming to join me, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

My absolute pleasure. It's very nice to be here. It's nice to be asked, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Was it? Is it you must have been on podcast before?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

No, I think this might be my first one actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Is it? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

No, I felt I felt quite upset that nobody had ever asked me to do the girl one. So I'm I'm pleased that you've asked me.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Do you know what though? Sometimes when the tables are turned, it's really weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

But what's quite what's quite nice is no editing.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

You can just go, yeah, I'm just gonna pitch up and talk.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

What happened was I met Chris on his radio show, The After Party, which is a great radio show. I had a fab time with you and Laura. Actually, what's really interesting is the story behind you and the afterparty. Afterparty?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Afterparty.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

After party show that you run. And I thought it was really interesting to Chris, why did the after party come about? What was

Breakdown Back Surgery And Diagnosis

SPEAKER_00 2:11

that about?

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Well, quite a few different things happened that mm, you know, brought that to life. So the first thing, I suppose, was uh I had a a mental breakdown in mid-2024. Which um looking back on it, if anyone's ever been through that, it is a bizarre thing. It almost feels like it was another person.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Crazy, really. And I was pretty desperate at the time. Um there was a lot going on in my life with the separation and divorce and and financial pressure. I think as well, just someone being in my mid-40s and and and looking at my life had been completely turned on its head and just thinking, like, no, how the hell do I ended up here? I am an electrician, um, and I've been doing that pretty successfully. I really enjoyed it, but um the physical nature of that job just caught up with me. I've had problems in the past, I had a back operation in 2010, and so I was like something had to give, you know, um, and and it it first of all it was my mental health, and then I went back to work, and then it was my physical health. Like I I got rushed to St George's in um August 24. Um, I had something called cord requires syndrome, which is where your spinal column collapses, pushing into your spinal cord.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Oh my.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

And then three weeks later, I got rushed back to St. George's because I couldn't feel my feet, it was all getting a little bit kind of crazy, and then I had to have an It was scary. It was terrifying. Um, so I had to have an emergency spinal correction, a double dystectomy and a laminectomy, is what I have. I was in bed for several months afterwards, and then tried to go back to work last year um at the beginning of the year, but it was apparent that I was gonna be struggling physically, you know. I was in so much pain, and I just thought to myself, you know, what am I gonna do? And and my sister came to the rescue a little bit, uh so concerned about me that she was trying to find somebody for me to speak to in terms of counsellor or a therapist. And when the when the community mental health team were visiting me, they they were great, don't get me wrong, they they were amazing, but my sister was asking them well, what what about Chris's ADHD? And they were all a bit kind of clueless, they're just like, Well, it's not really my department, that sort of thing. My ADHD assessment got fast-tracked because of all of the and then So at the point of your breakdown, Chris, you didn't know you were ADHD? Well, I think I think I think I I did know, and my assistant definitely knew.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

And it's never been it'd never been like a big enough thing to have to get a diagnosis.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

I I think um it would have been handy to know, and we will we'll we could talk about that later. Uh I I guess that was the a real sort of pressure point where you know, it's like it was like, oh okay, this is getting serious, this is getting desperate. You know, you couldn't fix somebody somebody had a broken hip. You would look at well, what would be done to your hip that's broken it. Do you know what I mean? That's maybe not. But you know, the it it there's you know, you you're you're feeling this way, you're you're acting this way, you're suffering from this. What's the root of it? You know, um there are lots of different roots of it. I mean, suffering from depression, it can be triggered by you know, loads of different things. Yeah, necessarily have to be triggered by anything. But when you've got lots of things on top of you, com the cognitive effects is is is pretty heavy. Laura basically said, look, you you have you have got ADHD, you know, getting a diagnosis isn't gonna fix it, but it would maybe help you understand it better.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Is exactly what happened. And then once I had my diagnosis, then Laura was already kind of up and running with what she wanted to do with the after party in terms of she couldn't find me the help support and help that I needed. So she thought, well, if I can't find the support and the help, then I'll I'll create it, you know, which is exactly what Sounds like Laura. Yeah, basically, yeah. Um and then once she had that up and running, the ball was rolling, then then she approached me then to say, Well, would you want to be part of it? I'd been doing a radio show for for years.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

It was basically all about music, you know, that that that's my my sort of passion in in life, if you like. And it's it has been that way since I was a teenager. But after again, after my operation, I had to let the radio show go because it was just I just couldn't physically do it. And then when I went back to doing it again, that momentum I built up over all those years, it just kind of hit a brick wall, and I just thought I just don't want to do this anymore. And so with the after party, it it kind of it gave me an avenue into going back and getting back into it again.

From Alcohol To Other Dopamine Hits

SPEAKER_00 7:08

I suppose thinking up to that point, Chris, was what kind of coping strategies were you using then? Because obviously this the ADHD probably you knew a bit like for me, I knew I was dyslexic, but didn't have the diagnosis. And actually the diagnosis made the big difference.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

But what did life look like? How are you coping?

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Um, not brilliantly. So, I mean, I I think obviously we're gonna get on to talking about this in a minute, but uh I've I've been sober now for six and a half years. So I started drinking when I was I think it was 14 or 15. And although, you know, you you wouldn't say somebody is an alcoholic from that age, you would certainly I can look back on it now and certainly see that I was drinking alcoholically. Um I drank alcoholically for for 25 years really. And then I got sober in 2019, that's about eight or nine months before COVID. My business had a massive upturn during COVID. I was so busy.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

That was great because it gave me like a different focus. You know, I was I was like, oh, I'm sober now, fantastic. You know, my life has you know, it almost feels like you've been reborn in a way. My problem was is that I started uh swapping addictions basically. You know, what it was is that I, you know, addiction, you know, drinking drugs had been such a millstone around my neck for so many years that when I finally got rid of that weight, you know, it on the surface, that was the thing that was causing all the problems. So you get rid of that and then think to yourself, all right, well, I'm I'm fine now, you know, I'm yeah, great. You know, look at me. And I was very proud of myself for getting sober, probably a bit too proud of yourself in a way, actually. Like, because well the thing is, like, you know, you don't you wouldn't go home and say, Oh, I didn't act like an idiot today, aren't I, aren't I great? You know what I mean? Like, it's a bit like saying, you know, I'm not racist, aren't I fantastic? Was that no, you shouldn't be racist, being racist is is rubbish. Having a an alcohol problem, an addiction, yeah, when you get over it, the addict, it is an achievement. You think this is great, this is amazing. It's probably looked at differently from other people, I would I'd have thought, because you've put people through a lot of grief and pain and hardship over the years, you know. So my but that was very much a coping strategy for me. Um just to dull the the noise and just calm everything down.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

And I don't know the kind of exact stats, but I know there's quite a high incidence of people that possibly are ADHD that maybe aren't diagnosed, and that's almost like a s a form of self-medication to try and get through that. And it's it's not unusual.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

No, I don't know, I don't know how accurate these figures are, but the the the figures that I was told is that 20% of the population are neurodivergent.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

And 80% of people who are neurodivergent will have problems with addiction. So that's high. It's high. But that can be lots of different things. It could be it could be food, it can be drink, it can be drugs, it can be gambling.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

Um, but it can also be things which seem less harmful on the surface as spending money. Yes you know, social media getting addicted to your to your phone or whatever. So I guess it's sort of it's a form of escapism, as I think.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Um so for me, spending money became a substitute, and and so you get that that dopamine hit you know from buying something. And it's not just that either. Like it for me, it was it was the the the kind of the road to buying that thing, be very, very open about this. It sounds a bit kind of crazy, but uh if I saw somebody wearing a pair of trainers that I really I thought, well all those are nice. I'm like, right, I need to find out what those trainers are. And so then I would go on the disfocus voyage of discovery to figure out right what are those trainers, and then once I've found out what they are, then I go on a boy should be able to see, right, where can I get them? How much are they? Who's got them the cheapest? And you know, then you keep on looking at it and then you think, oh, they've they're cheaper and they're cheaper, you know. And then before you know it, you you've kind of you've already convinced yourself that you're gonna buy these things that you just absolutely do not need.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah, I've done exactly the same, Chris. You have, right? I see people out.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Absolutely, right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Oh, I've seen people out, or I've seen them on they used to be when I see them out, but like you say, now with social media. Yeah, I see someone on social media and I'm like, oh my god, I love that top. Where have they got that from? So I'm now typing into Google, you know, trying to describe the top that doesn't work right. I'll go into AI and try it in there. And then, like you say, then it's on the voyage of where can I get it from? Where's the cheapest place I can get it from? And sometimes I don't even buy it, actually. For me, I don't the purchase doesn't actually happen. It's just the process of I've got to find it.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And and then the problem with then is well, I don't always buy it straight away either. But then I've got it in my head and it's it's just you know, it's away. Yeah. One day if I go on a site and it will say 25% off, then you know, it doesn't matter how much it originally was. I then trick myself that oh well, I'm technically losing money if I don't buy this thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

It's a bargain.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah, it's a bargain, you know. So then you get it, and then you got you get that reward, and then but then you get horrible buyer's remorse, and you just think I absolutely did not need this thing, and yeah, it goes into the pile of all the other stuff that I've got.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

And so, yeah, coping strategies for me for for years and years it it it was, you know, far more harmful things like drinking drugs.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

And it became less harmful, I guess, on the surface, but equally as harmful to the people around you. And I recognise that yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

And I was gonna

Parenting Accountability And Honest Reflection

SPEAKER_00 12:57

touch on that, because a lot of the people that are followers of the podcast are per well, most of them will be parents, and you're a parent yourself. What impact did that have on on parenting for you with the kids?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

I'm very lucky that when I got sober, the the kids were I guess they weren't even teenagers yet, so they they they were so young that they never didn't really ever see the impact of of what it was doing to me. They don't I don't think they they necessarily ever saw me drunk. I certainly don't remember. The the the damage I was doing was was it was causing it probably indirectly to my kids, but certainly to my to my marriage, you know. I'm yeah acutely aware of that now. And so you could argue that the overall effect was actually pretty damaging to the children because their parents are separated and and divorced. So I need to be careful that I don't put all of the blame on me because relationships are complicated and it it takes two, etc. There's there's there's two sides to every story. However, I I do need to I know where I went wrong. I need to hold myself accountable for the things that I did wrong. Simply because if I don't hold myself accountable, if I don't acknowledge that and own it, then then I'm just gonna make the same mistakes again. And and I've I've got to be very, very honest about these things.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

I don't have to go on a podcast and talk about it, but you know, it's kind of cathartic. You know, I've I've done it a lot in in AA meetings where you know it's best just to be honest. It's it's a strange one really because we've the more I've got into AA, the more I've realised it it's not necessarily I mean it is about drinking, yeah, of course it is, but it's it's a kind of a self-help group, really, and it's as much about kind of alcoholic thinking as it is about the actual practicalities of actually drinking. Because most of the people I know in AA have been around a while now, you know, they've they've you know some of them have been going for 30 years, you know. So but they are never gonna say, Oh, I'm I'm cured of this, I'm I'm fixed, because they know that their alcoholic thinking is always kind of lurking in the background, yeah. And it might not manifest itself in an actual drink or taking a drug, it might manifest itself elsewhere. And if you're not being completely open and honest about that with the people around you, then then you are potentially in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Yeah, and I was gonna ask you, was as part of that, what sort of sobriety look like now? What

What Sobriety Really Looks Like

SPEAKER_00 15:26

what what does because I think some people have this kind of real thing about, you know, everybody being zen and going to your talks and all that kind of stuff, but actually what does the real life look like?

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah, I think it's so that the with most people who get sober for the first like three to six months is called the sort of pink fluffy cloud. Once you get past that hurdle and you and and you start kind of getting your life back a little bit, it it's it feels amazing because you feel better physically, mentally, you know, you've got this horrible thing off your back. The biggest problem I I've found, not so much with me, but with I guess with other people, is that they get past that bit and then it's like, okay, now what? You know, like if you get you know, like getting getting sober is it's not a it's not a panacea, it's not gonna fix everything overnight. Like winning the lottery, your life's amazing now. That's not it. What it does is it it gives you the tools to make the best of your life afterwards, but you need to do the work, and the work is whether you're working on yourself or whether you're you're working with a sponsor, going to meetings, talking to people regularly, and then you're kind of thinking about more acts of service, so getting a service position within an AA group, which might be making the tease, it might be being a a greeter, it might be doing the literature. You know, everyone's encouraged to contribute. And I've I've been the chair of a of a meeting, and I was the treasurer of a meeting, been in a few different roles, and it just means that you're giving you getting something back.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

I think, yeah, there's there isn't gonna be one clear, this is what sobriety is gonna look like for you. It's gonna be different for everybody. I think the the really important thing to to remember is is that it is not gonna fix everything overnight. What it does, however, do is it means that you've you've got the ability, the tools to to kind of tackle life head on. Life continues, like life is gonna go on, you know, like bad things are still gonna happen. You can't prevent bad things from happening, but you know, looking at it, you know, can you tackle this better drunk?

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Or can you tackle this better sober? Now, yeah, the prime example of this, you know, as you'll be aware, I'm sure you know my my mum passed away last year.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

You know, Laura and I, my sister and I, you know, this isn't not not having to go at either of my brothers, it's just you know, the way that life kind of unfolded is that you know, it was up to my sister and I to deal with most of it, you know, organising the funeral and looking after my dad and etc. etc. You know, as a family, everyone's been brilliant, you know, it's just more about where we live, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, the practicalities of it.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Yeah, because that's the reason why that kind of happened that way. But I remember going to an AA meeting not long after my mum passed away, and I, you know, was thinking, like, if I was still drinking at this time, or if I returned to drinking at this time, then I would have made it all about me. It would have been poor me, woe is me. I would have used it as an excuse to go out and you know, kill myself. Well, not kill myself, literally, but you know, like just you know, destroy myself, you know. I've got justification now, so I'm gonna go out and really punish myself, you know, punish everyone around. None of that occurred to me. You know, none of that none of that happened. It wasn't like I was like, oh, I really want to drink, I didn't even think about it. You know, I was able to tackle it head on, like I I say normal, not no no one's normal, but you know, as as a as a functioning member of our family, you know, whereas if I'd been drinking and using, I wouldn't have been able to do that. And so, you know, it's almost like I surprised myself in a sense that oh, I can do this, you know, I I can tackle this. If you look at again, this is not about me saying, poor me, but you know, in the last two or three years, I've separated from my wife divorced, had back surgery, spinal surgery, lost my career, and then my mum died. I mean, that's heavy stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

That's pretty huge.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Heavy stuff, you know, in a very, very short space of time.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

If anyone had an excuse to go out and drink, it might have been me. I mean, I wouldn't I'm not saying that excuse would have been justified, but you know, I think a lot of people were looking at me like, oh my god, you know, this is if he's gonna do it, it's gonna be now.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

It's gonna be now, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

It didn't even occur to me. Didn't even I didn't think about it. And it wasn't like I was battling it, just didn't want it. And the reason why I didn't want it is because of the work that I've done in AA, the work that I've done with my sponsor and the work that I've done with other people in AA. But then also working with people who who are in sobriety or in recovery, because not everybody I know who's in recovery is in AA, you know, but talking about these things with other people, it it gives you like a natural, almost like a barrier, you know, where I was able to look at the situation and think, well, number one, I don't want to let myself down. Number two, I don't want to let my family down, or my friends, or any of the other people in AA. But the biggest thing is the further I I get away from that last time I had a drink, the more I realise, or the more I recognise how much damage it would have been doing to me had I still been doing it. Like, you know, I I think about that all the time in a sense of like you know, putting myself through that level of punishment again. There is no amount of money that you that would won't make me want to do that because it wasn't it wasn't fun in the end. The last five or six years, or maybe longer, none of it was fun, but it became an a necessity rather than a choice.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

So that's

The Moment Control Finally Broke

SPEAKER_00 21:24

was there a point, Chris, that that happened where you thought, oh my god, this is bad. Did something happen?

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, there was there was a few different things. So so the first thing was what I should have known better, I should have known in my mid-20s when you know I ended up in in in hospital. I won't go too deeply into the details, but it it was it was pretty bad. And I I was was kind of in a in a rehab setting after that. That wasn't my first taste of that. My first taste of it was because losing my driver license in my early twenties drink driver. So that I was able to say I I I did like a drink driving rehabilitation thing. That was my first introduction to group setting, and then the mid-twenties. The problem was is that I had no real interest in in stopping drinking. And it was a long time ago now, but my my recollection of it at the time, it wasn't like well, we're a we're a group that's gonna help you get sober and stay sober. No, it was more about learning how to drink sensibly, learning how to control your drinking. Now there's the one thing that I I didn't know, and I didn't work this out until years and years later, is that there are you know the the idea of this stereotypical alcoholic is a guy on a park bench with a bottle of whiskey shouting at the traffic. I mean, obviously there is that, but that is not my experience at all. My experience of pretty much everybody I've met in AA wasn't that they were drinking every single day out of physical addiction. You know, again, there is that, and I do know people who have been through that. My my overall experience is is the is what happens to people when when they have a drink, because I I would go out and I would think to myself, right, I'm I'm gonna have one or two pints and I'll be back by 10 pm. And in my head, I meant that. You know, I really meant okay. But as soon as I had that first drink, obviously the first sip, the first bit of it, there's something happened in my brain, the chemical reaction in my brain, it's like okay, I want this and I want more of it, you know, and I want more, I want more, I want more. And it's that old saying of um one's too many, ten's not enough. And I didn't understand that about myself, and it wasn't really until after I got sober that I did learn that about myself. Because I thought to myself, well, I can't be an alcoholic because I'm not physically addicted to alcohol, you know. Like I've seen train spotting, you know, those guys are physically they're physically addicted to to heroin.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

I'm not, you know, I know loads of people who smoke, they're physically addicted to smoking, they can't stop smoking, they're physically addicted to it. I can go for weeks without drinking. I can go for months without drinking, and I have and had gone for months without drinking. So I'm fine, you know. Well, I haven't got a problem. So then it becomes about right, why can you not moderate your drinking? And so then also with the people around you, it's right, we're going to a party, um, you know, it's somebody, it's someone's whatever, 40th birthday party. It's not like a big major thing, it's it's a get-together, you know, and at three o'clock in the morning, I'm I'm still going and I'm trying to encourage everybody else who's still around me to keep going. And and if that party stopped, then I'll just carry on the party somewhere else by myself if I have to. And so afterwards, you'd always look at it and and be like, the people around me would always be like, Why can you not behave like everybody else? Why can you not behave like normal people? And I'd be saying the same thing to myself as well, you know, angry at myself, why did I do that again, again and again and again? Why can't I not control this?

SPEAKER_00 25:11

And it wasn't I've often heard people talk as well a look a lot about feeling quite shameful.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Yeah. About it.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Shame is really big in there as well. Why didn't I do that differently? Why did I do that? Yeah, or embarrassed by something that they did at the point.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yeah, but always. I mean, and that and that you know, would ADHD doesn't help that as either. Would you ask playing everything over in your head afterwards? I mean, so so there wasn't one event that was like, oh okay, that's the pivotal event. There was a pivotal event for me, which was the last time I ever drank, where I was up in the middle of the night, it's like five o'clock in the morning, I had work the next day, I was at a job the next day, and that was the first time where I ever realized that well, I don't have any control over this at all. You know, I was 39, you know, I'd had a couple of warning shots before that, and in my head thinking, this is a bit weird. Why do I keep doing these things? Why can I not stop? You know, but that was the first time when I ever actually just got on my knees and I was like, oh, okay, I understand it now. Like I I am an alcoholic, you know, or I cannot physically drink like normal people.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Normal people. I I can't do it, you know. Um, and half the battle, I guess, is recognising that.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Once you've realized that, it's like, oh okay, fine, right, okay, now I know, you know, what I need to do.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Did

ADHD After Sobriety Comes Into Focus

SPEAKER_00 26:35

you find, Chris, that when when you got kind of when you got sober, did the ADHD stuff become more obvious then? It did. So it was kind of hiding the ADHD stuff almost.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

It was, yeah. A lot of that came to the surface.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Do you know what actually we tried to articulate this? I guess my behaviour up until that point, all the bad things I was doing, you could possibly attribute that to an addictive personality, right? So it's like, right, you've stopped drinking and doing drugs, so why are you still doing these bad things? Well, not saying bad things, but why are you still not behaving brilliantly? I can't blame that on the drink on drugs anymore. Not a blame, I can't attribute it to that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

You know, and I again it's very, very important to anyone watching this that you know that I am not saying that all of the things that I've done wrong are are down to my ADHD. You know, I don't get I don't get a free pass. You know, I did that stupid thing. That was my ADHD. Oh, don't worry about it then. You're fine, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

But what what what it did, it absolutely highlighted um the you know, the the way my brain works and why I react to things a certain way, why I behave a certain way, why I do the things that I do, the alcohol and all that maybe kept a lead on it. Yes it was a distraction.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah, it redirected people almost. Because it must be the alcohol.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

And then so then you're sober and you're like, oh, okay, fine, I'm still doing similar things. I'll still behave, idiot. What's what's this about? And then it's like, and then and again, since I found out that I had ADHD, it's so much of of of all of this is just clicked. Oh, okay, right, now I get it. Now I get it, you know. And it's and getting a diagnosis, it wasn't like I woke up the next day and say, Oh, you're you're fixed now, you know, going on to try medication, you know, didn't stop me from having ADHD. It just hopefully enables me to function a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

How did how did you feel after the the diagnosis, Chris? Because I know for me, I was quite shocked by my kind of range of emotions that came out after my diagnosis. Now, I haven't got any difficulties with addiction, but mine's probably been mental health in a more general way, you know, anxiety, that kind of thing. And I think when I got diagnosed as dyslexic, I thought I would just be relieved. I thought I'd kind of go, Oh, thank God. I know what it is now, I can do something about it. But I went through the thank God, because initially I was worried about what would happen if they said I wasn't dyslexic. That was that. Then what does that mean? I'm just stupid. Then there was the whole, okay, thank God, I've that's what it is. Now I can kind of find a way around that. But I think then there came this real anger, like really cross. And I'm not an angry person, I don't like feeling angry particularly. I don't get angry very easily, but a real sense of anger that I feel like I kind of my life could have been different. And I've I almost feel like a bit like you said, sounds a bit cliche, but being born again. It is that sense of, I think since I got the the diagnosis, is is being able to lean in to being dyslexic. Really go back. I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

That's it. So yeah, leaning into it. That's really, really good way. Actually, do you know um a friend of mine, John Winston, he said that once I got my diagnosis and then he found out about the after party and the work. He said to me, Oh, you're really leaning into this, aren't you? Like it was like, you know, and but actually that kind of it helped me get a better understanding of it, come to turn.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

It's not an excuse leaning in. It's not a forgive me because I'm just this, that, or the other. It is a real sense of I almost felt like I became more dyslexic because I drop the that's very stereotypical for women is we tend to have lots of masking and coping strategies, but I mean men do as well. And I think I got a sense and an opportunity to drop some of those. I've become more dyslexic.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Yeah. Do you know something that you made me realise actually as well? Because I I I have had mental health issues for years, and you know, my mental health issues started in my mid-20s.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

And um it was so easy to say, right, your mental health issues come from your addictive nature and the way that you're reacting to that, to your behaviour. And also, you know, I had a back operation in 2000 and 10. You know, you know, you you know, I I have lived in chronic pain for the last 20 years, okay? So you think to yourself, of course you're gonna be depressed because of that, and of course you're gonna because you you you you're you you're using. Of course you're gonna be depressed because you haven't got any money. You know, of course, of course, of course. But then once you remove those things and you're still depressed, or or then as I did in 2024, you know, I had a mental breakdown. Like, well, what's that about then? I've removed all those other things, and this is still happening. And it's like, oh, hang on a minute, it's it's there is there is something else here, you know, it it's it's something else lurking, quite sinister for me. And for me, actually unearthing it took away that um you know, if it felt quite, as I said, sinister, like a little bit evil and a little bit, you know. Okay, like something's lurking there and it's doing me harm. Actually, unearthing it kind of removed that in a way. And so it doesn't necessarily have to be a hurtful, harmful thing. It is what it is, you know. But yeah, the things that I'm really interested in are the links between addiction, yeah, neurodiversity, and depression. Now, the the three are not necessarily mutually exclusive. You know, it the people people who suffer from you know addiction problems don't oh, I'm not always gonna have mental health issues in the same way, they're not necessarily gonna be neurodivergent. But for me, that was a kind of a vicious trifecta, is the way that I, you know, each one is folding into the other.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Yeah. And it may well be that people don't realise they have an addiction, because like you talked about, addiction isn't just alcohol, drugs, you know, it can be a whole it can be food, it can be sex, it could it can be almost anything. You can have an addiction to something that will cause you harm taken to extremes.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

And it might be, you know, actually some people, the recording of of whether people have addiction and are neurodivergent may not be correct because they might not actually even see it as a problem.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

I mean, I the way I look at an an addiction, trying to try to explain the type of people. I mean, no, again, there's no hard and fast cookie cut thing. I mean, amount of people I've had said to me, like, Oh, do you think I've I've got a a drinking problem? You know, I'm like, Well, it's not for me to say, I don't that's just for you, you can you know, it's not none of my business. The way that I look at it is is are you in control of it?

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

And and is it doing you more harm than good? You know, and if the answer to either of those is kind of like maybe I'm gonna have a look at it. You know, like like you know, get a lot of people don't think they've got a drinking problem because because they they might go for months without drinking. But a lot of people I know, again, they've got that thing where as soon as they have a drink, it's like the wheels come off and then they have a really messy night, and then there's all the consequences of the next couple of days where they feel terrible and they feel the shame and blah blah blah blah, and they miss their kids' sports day the next day because they were too hung over to go and all those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

But then they'll go for three months, four months again without doing any of that. And then when it's you know, but then they often they can often repeat the same cycles. And so I would argue that that is that it's a drinking problem. It might not be the conventional drinking problem.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

It's causing you harm, then yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

You know, uh, I don't I I don't think people realise how much uh how damaging alcohol actually is, you know, it it's it and I'm not here to to get all evangelical about it, you know, like you know but it it's it's a legal drug and you know the amount of money that alcohol costs the the DNHS on a weekly basis, you know, like if again, it's all sounds quite trite and maybe a little bit obvious, but I think anyone is probably gonna know that if you walk into a hospital on a Friday and Saturday night, what what is everybody there for? Not everybody, but you know what why why is this high? So so so the resources that are taken up by the police and the ambulance services and the hospitals of dealing with drunk people is you know it takes up a huge amount of their time and resources. That is why alcohol is should be taxed so heavily. It's because people have got to pay for the after effects of it. It's the same thing about smoking. Smoking doesn't do anyone any good ever. There are no benefits to smoking.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

So that's why it's taxed so heavily, because it has such a massive, massive creates a massive load on the energy.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah. And I think I was just thinking about the kind of alcohol side of things and the addiction side of things and linking that into you know, neurodiversity, like we're talking about, and mental health. And it's

School Struggles And Work That Fits

SPEAKER_00 36:01

must be as well that kind of that chicken and egg thing. You know, we know everyone, you know, if you're neurodivergent, you neurodivergent, that's not going to come and go, you are. But actually the other two, does that kind of what comes first? Is it because I'm neurodivergent but not diagnosed? And you know, there are lots of people like, you know, we've discovered Chris and I that we're actually the same age and we're in the same year at school. Actually, there's a lot of people our kind of age that are kind of going, oh, and working out that they're a neurodivergent in their 40s and their 50s. And all those coping strategies, positive and not so positive, that they have adopted over the over the what over the over time, you know, is that because they haven't recognised their neurodivergence or it hasn't been recognised, it's not their fault, it hasn't been recognised. Therefore, the drinking comes in, the drugs come in, the addictions come in, the low mood then comes as a consequence of constantly masking and constantly not understanding why you're doing certain things. And actually at the crux of it is it understanding neurodivergence? I don't know, that's the question that I kind of put out there.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

I mean, I would love I I would love to know, you know, because my I I mean I I I really didn't enjoy school. I hated school. Yeah, me too. I couldn't wait to get out, and I then I made the mistake of going into like higher education thinking that you know it was just the school setup was a problem. The problem is I'm I'm just in that kind of academic setup, you know, for whatever reason. I'm not stupid, I know I'm not stupid, but you know, like I I I but I I just really struggle in that kind of environment. And I was always very creative, you know, so yeah, that's what I wanted to do. I was good at art, so I did art at school, and then you know, I discovered that I was good at music, so then I pursued music, and that's where I was happiest. And it's also probably no surprise as well that you know, all all of the successful things I've done career-wise have been self-employed, you know. Yeah, I do not thrive in a boxed-in environment.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yeah. I was talking to someone this morning, I think they said to me that um kind of self-employed uh, you know, celepreneurs, entrepreneurs, that kind of thing, one in five of them they make a neurodivergent, and I think one in five were of dyslexic, they could be higher about the neurodivergent sections. One in five are dyslexic.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Do you know what it is? Well, like so I I don't wake up in the morning and I'm think I I sometimes at nine o'clock I absolutely did not want to do any work. For whatever reason, I just want to whatever have a coffee, you know, watch the news or or do anything else other than work. You know, but then quite often though, I'll find myself working until 11 30, 12 o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

You know, because that seems to be where I'm the most productive, you know. And and back back when I was doing the electrical work, it was quite well I I worked with a guy called Jack for years, and and he he would always I would always be up really late doing all the invoicing and writing out all the certificates and and and things, you know. And he would say like next day, oh you're up late last night, I'd be like, Yeah, you know, yeah, but I don't know what something about it is putting my headphones on, hyper focusing for three or four hours, getting all the paperwork up today. That's when I wanted to do it. Um that's why I guess being in a in a nine to five in an office, you know, conventional just it just for me. You know, I just can't do it. You know, I'll do it when I want to do it. You know, no one's gonna tell me otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

It's telling me what to do.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

No, it's telling me what to do.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Kind of thinking about what works for you, Chris. You know, I

Music Movement And Daily Mindfulness

SPEAKER_00 39:34

heard you talk about your music, and I suppose what I loved, you know, I obviously've got the podcast, but what I loved about coming off the radio show with you is that it incorporated music, and music's a big part of my life too. And I just think what's so nice about the after party is that you're having those really put important conversations, but I love that it brings music in, and I think listening to you talk that's obviously a really important part for you as well. And I suppose I was just thinking about what other things that kind of have you are you doing that kind of bring you joy, I suppose. And joy sounds a bit geeky.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

I like the word joy. Yeah, no, I think it's good. I think that's um I so yeah, absolutely you know, music and it's it's it it's uh playing for me, listening to, but then also I've always had an insatiable appetite for information, you know. So if it's like if you it doesn't even have to be a band or artist that I even particularly like, you know, but it it I if I if that person's interesting, you know, and that's interesting to me, then I will, you know, I've bought books on artists before where you know I've tried this into the music and I'm like, no, I just can't get it. But they're an interesting person, they've got an interesting story, you know, I'm interested in that, you know. And so for me, a lot of it is is you know, where was it recorded, who recorded it, what year was it recorded, you know. Yeah. Weird niche details, and it's actually something that my my son says to me regularly, you know, thankfully, so thankfully, like you know, he he's really into music and seems to be kind of going on down that road. I'm immensely happy about that because I can just live vicariously through him now, Liz. So my work's done. But he he he will often sort of be amazed at where this stuff is is is coming from, the knowledge, you know. And I know I don't know where it's coming from, you know, it's just it's in there somewhere. I I'm hopeless to remember exactly people's names and birthdays. Awful, terrible. But I can tell you where David Barry was in March 1976, you know, like let's look through things like that, you know, and and and so that's always been a massive, massive thing for me.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Do you do you have kind of music at some point in your day every day? So you might be listening or playing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Pretty much all day. So I bought it.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

So it's in your life all the time.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Yeah, I've always got the radio on. Yeah. If I've got the radio on, then I'm listening to an album or listening to a podcast about music, you know, and quite often spend some part of the evening reading about something or watching a documentary or whatever. You know, yeah, it's a bit it's it's it's massive, massive part of my life. The the thing that's become really big in my life over the last couple of years, which was kind of forced upon me because of my back, was Pilates and yoga. Now.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Do you prefer one over the other?

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Uh I prefer Pilates, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Do you? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Yeah, I do, yeah. Uh when I first started doing it, first of all, I felt like such an idiot, you know, like what am I doing?

SPEAKER_01 42:35

What am I doing?

SPEAKER_02 42:35

You know, I think the thing is as well, is we you know, we live in a fast society, right, where we want instant results and instant gratification and instant things. And so I remember I did Pilates years ago, you know, when I was probably 2012, something like that. And I did actually start to notice the benefits after a while, and then because I've been through every single kind of you know, chiropractor, osteopath, you name it, I've been there, but I would say the thing that's helped me the most was Pilates. So I started doing it a a couple of years ago, taking it more seriously and doing it pretty much every night. After my operation, I couldn't do it, really missed it, and then I went back to it again. And then this was when it really clipped for me because there were there were after my operation, I remember like I I couldn't, there was physical things that I just couldn't do, you know, like you know, because I couldn't get anywhere near touching my toes. And so I'm thinking, right, you know, I was in so much pain that I was like, you you actually think to yourself, I'm never gonna be able to touch my toes again. There is no physical way that I'm ever gonna be able to do this again, because you're like, it's impossible, you know. But then I haven't I would think about Pilates and yoga, it it takes time, but over time you start to see the the benefits kind of manifesting itself, you know. After three months, four months, five months, you're like, Oh my god, this actually works. And yeah, the other thing as well, I know that it works because if I don't do it for a few days for whatever reason. My body really starts to suffer and I start to notice differences. And so, you know, I can be in pain, I'll go and do prizes in yoga, classes more, and then that will actually make you feel better almost immediately. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the other thing as well that's become again, I didn't realise that this was happening, but this is kind of how it happened, was I would stick an album on while I was doing this, like it's like a 45 minutes to an hour session I would do every day, right? Which is generally one album, maybe one and a half albums. Okay. Yeah. Stick it on vinyl, usually. And so there's then it becomes this almost like ritual. And what I hadn't realised as well, that it was becoming a mindfulness exercise. It was becoming meditative in a sense that I was putting my phone in another room.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

All I was doing for that 45 minutes to an hour is just concentrating on Pilates, yoga, the music. That's that everything else just drifts away. I hadn't realized how valuable that owl was was had come become to me. Not just for a health, like physical health reasons, but also for mental health reasons as well.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Yeah. I was just gonna say, because I think sometimes with an ADHD brain, you know, you and Laura and I had a conversation about where there might be an ADHD diagnosis for me in there, but until that comes, when I'm talking talking to other people with ADHD brains, they often will talk about actually the choir and staying still is really difficult. But what you're doing with that and is is staying present in the moment, but including movement and music to enable you to keep in the moment. That's that's really important, that bit, isn't it? I think because I think sometimes as ADHD brains, we tend to be on to the what's next, what's next, what's next, because we're always chasing the next dopamine hit. Whereas actually incorporating all of those gives you the here in the moment, which we're not very good at doing by using I mean, I'll get my I can get my OT hat on and all about movement, but you know how movement helps with that, and I think that's really interesting.

Building The After Party And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 45:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

I was just thinking, Chris, is that what's next for you? So you've got the radio show, what are your plans? I know you and Laura are are now you know in plans for doing something. What's next?

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Well, I think um I'm really keen to to kick that uphill and see where it can go. I I think that the thing it's it's very early days. We've had some really positive feedback from a lot of people so far. Um I know that when you see that something has been shared by a lot of people, you know, and you see that kind of organic growth, if you like, that's incredibly rewarding, you know. Uh and then when you get people then coming back to you and saying that I found I thought it was brilliant, you know, and actually I've had people come back to me whom who I absolutely did not expect to kind of enjoy it or get something out of it, you know, but and then on a slightly higher level, I've sent it to some people I know who were working uh, you know, some big companies and stuff, you know, that this is kind of what they do in in terms of the whole social media aspect of it. And they again they've come back and said, Well, you might be onto something here. This this is this is really, really good. So what I'd love to do, ideally, well, I'm I'm retraining to be an ADHD coach. So are you?

SPEAKER_00 47:09

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

So I'm um I can't wait to to have all that up and running, but to have that running alongside the after party, that's that's kind of what I want to do. And I want it to be we want to I want to get it to be a weekly show, maybe bi weekly, and then it's about then you start getting more attention, you know, in in terms of you know, ship and guests and stuff, and it's absolutely not about being a celebrity slut. I know I don't, you know, I've got no interest in that celebrity culture whatsoever, but you know, it you you you would know that if you can get somebody with quite a high profile to come on it and and just shares it wide enough. Precisely, all it does is it just it just gets it out there, you know. So so if if if Laura and I can turn this into a a bona fide career, then that would that would tick a lot of boxes for me. You know, it would it would mean that I've turned a really bad situation that I was in actually like a really, really good situation, you know. See you know, that's the thing about being an electrician that I always really enjoyed was to help in people aspect, you know. Yeah, doing the work is is pretty boring most of the time, pretty mundane.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

The most rewarding part is when you get somebody coming home and they go, Oh, you know, thank you so much for fixing that, or yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the bit, you know, that I used to really, really enjoy. And so, you know, in order, you know, if I get the opportunity now to just just to help people, I mean that's that's that's gotta be it's gotta be worth it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Well what we'll do is we'll leave all the links because I would very much recommend going and finding, although it's on Surrey Hills Radio, the show, and it's called The After Party, that actually you can listen to it from anywhere. So there's a link, isn't there, that you can join up and and have a listen, so you don't have to be in Surrey to listen to it.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

No, you'd absolutely don't. Yeah, it's on it's on all the other streaming platforms now as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

I was gonna Yeah, it comes back to a podcast type as well, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 49:09

Yeah, yeah. And so you've got multiple different ways that you can you can get yourself involved in that.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Uh we'll make sure we put all of those in the show notes for people so they can find that.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

And what we want people to do is to is to follow us on social media as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

We would do that as well. So where are what are you on, Chris? Are you on all of them?

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Facebook, Instagram, I think TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Okay, I would definitely recommend it. Thanks ever so much for coming on, Chris. I really appreciate you coming on and I really appreciate how open you've been about it because it isn't often spoken about, I don't think, enough. I think often people feel quite shameful of it and won't talk about it. And I also think, you know, we've talked about that that link between neurodivergence and addiction is is a strong one. And there will be lots of parents out there under stress as well. And we probably didn't touch much on that, but actually when our stress levels go up and when you think about the things that you were going through at the time, my alcohol then becomes that that crutch or that support during that time. And I'm sure you know, parents that a bit like I have been this through EHCPs and through tribunals and all that kind of stuff, our stress levels and how we cope in those times. Often the crutch for neurodivergent and neurotypical people is drinking and to find a way through. And I hope that this has kind of normalized that conversation, has shown the kind of the risks of drinking, but also that the the what's come out of that for you out the other side and how you found your way through and and what your plans are next. And I'm really excited to see where the radio show goes. I thought, as I say, I've thoroughly enjoyed myself on the show. It was great fun.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

We are definitely gonna have you back and I love it. But you'll think it might even be a oh no, I won't I won't reveal I won't want to ruin the surprise.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

Okay. Keep the surprise. It was great fun. And I think what it does and what it's there for is really, really important. And I think it's going to help a lot of people. So we will make sure all those contact details are in the show notes. And just leads me to say thank you ever so much. Um, yeah, we'll see you soon.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Yeah, thanks very much, Liz, for inviting me on.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

You're welcome.