Fostering children with SEND: the highs, the lows, and a lot of love (Jordan Garratt)

Content Note: This episode includes discussion of foster care, trauma, low mood and suicidal feelings. If these topics are difficult for you, please take care while listening.
 If you are struggling, please consider speaking to someone you trust or seeking support. In the UK & ROI, Samaritans are available 24/7 on 116 123 or at samaritans.org. 

Jordan Garratt, founder of Sensory Class, joins us to tell the story few people know about: the teacher who fell in love with special education, brought AAC and sensory joy into her lessons, and opened her home to children with complex needs, and even more complex histories.

Jordan talks us through foster care: the lows and the highs. The assessment panels and nameless referrals. The school place that should have been a lifeline, but wasn’t. Jordan also shares a drawing she made of a child standing on their hands underwater, and the praise of “you’re doing great”, even though she was drowning.

If you’re a parent navigating SEND, a fellow foster carer, or a professional supporting children and young people in care, receiving respite or adopted, this episode can be a tough listen at times, but it’s also a conversation full of love, honesty and truth.

Thank you Jordan for sharing with us. 

If you would like to connect with Jordan you can find her here:

Website: https://sensoryclassroom.org/

Instagram: Sensory Class

Podcast: Sensory Classroom

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Chapters

• 0:59 Meet Jordan: Special Ed Journey
• 2:41 Discovering A Calling In PMLD
• 4:50 Bringing Special Ed Into Mainstream
• 5:56 Joy, AAC, And Sensory Teaching
• 6:24 Balancing Teaching And A Growing Platform
• 7:14 Revealing The Foster Care Story
• 9:05 Are You The Perfect Parent
• 10:28 Children In Care And Complex Needs
• 12:53 Respite Care And Out‑Of‑Education Realities
• 14:40 The Referral Flood And Emotional Toll
• 16:50 Preparing For The Unknown Child
• 18:43 The Weight Of Responsibility
• 20:36 Trauma Emerging Through Play
• 22:38 Drowning While Everyone Applauds
• 24:41 Isolation, School Breakdown, No Support
• 27:44 Burnout, Crisis, And Hard Choices
• 29:41 Keeping Promises: The Disneyland Trip
• 31:29 Unfinished Stories And Lasting Impact
• 33:34 Unexpected Empathy For Birth Families
• 35:30 How Fostering Reframed Teaching
• 37:41 School As Respite And Real Support
• 39:57 Relationships, Friendships, And Guarding Dignity
• 42:14 One Big Advice: Don’t Fear Social Care
• 44:35 Respite And Emergency Care Demystified
• 47:37 Get In The System Before Crisis
• 50:50 Gratitude, Resources, And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:30

Jordan, thank you ever so much for joining us on the Untypical Parent podcast today. You are so welcome. I'm so thrilled to be here. We're delighted to have you. Thank you. Just before we kind of get into the kind of the nitty-gritty of what we're going to be talking about today, and I'm really looking forward to this conversation because I think this is going to be a conversation that people won't necessarily attribute to you. They won't know this about you. So I'm really looking forward to talking about it. And I think it's also a really, really important topic that I think we is really good to talk about and explore. But before we do that, Jordan, tell us a bit about who you are, who you are and what do you do.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12

I am a special education teacher, and I've been in special education since I was 18. I started as a supply teaching assistant whilst I was doing my degree because I knew I wanted to be a teacher, thought I wanted to be a drama teacher. My degree was in acting, so I thought I wanted to do kind of secondary school drama, and I thought, well, S End teacher, you know, practice as a teaching assistant would be great practice. Because if I can do that, I can run a year nine drama class. So that was that was what I was thinking. And then one week in in a PMLD class, I thought, oh, hello, I quite like this actually. I hadn't I hadn't had any experience with anything. No, no, no, nobody in my family, knowingly, at that point, um, was autistic or had any disabilities, but it just triggered something in me. And then from that point, I was in. So I did that for two years whilst I was doing my degree. Uh, went to the same school for my teacher training and NQT year, and then worked there for 10 years as a teacher in the special needs school. So that kind of it just took me, it completely changed my path doing that. Um, and ever since it's been my absolute passion. So, yeah, that was when I was 18, so that was 16 years ago. And I've worked with children from two to 19, uh, young adults to 19, um, doing all sorts of different um subjects and things with them. And then a couple of years ago, I started sharing my lesson plans because it I my latest school was attached to a mainstream school, and it became really apparent to me that I could fill my special education class about three times over with the kids that were in mainstream. And I never saw that before because before I was just in special ed, so I just assumed that that's where all the kids were. Yeah, and in my latest school, it was very apparent that that isn't the case, and actually, there is some incredibly high needs children uh in mainstream that have no place in a classroom like mine, and they need it. And I was also aware that there's a big lock on my door, and nobody gets to see the amazing work that we do, and I wanted to celebrate it. It's not an institution, it's not what people think it is, and I wanted to celebrate the colour, songs, joy that we have in my classroom. So I kind of through my social media, I kind of share the that really. I wanted to really celebrate what special education is for those parents that are wanting to keep their children in mainstream because they're scared of what special education means. Yeah, um, and I wanted to share with the mainstream teachers because every teacher is a special education teacher now, what the hell to do with these kids in a positive way, because I was seeing some really poor practice. So it was it was that really, and then it's gone mad. Um, absolutely crazy. It's the business I never meant to start, yeah. Um really exciting, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:10

And I think that's how that really comes across for me when I've seen your posts and things is is the joy that that you obviously exude when you do it, and I think when we exude it, it comes back. Um that you know they're very positive. You do a lot around AAC and you do a lot around sensory stuff. Um, so I can well imagine that teachers.

SPEAKER_01: 4:32

I do genuinely just love it, and I feel so lucky to be a teacher who can say that I love it. I choose, well, I choose in my spare time to do a spare time in to do stuff for my kids. Like I absolutely love it. And my TAs will tell you so often I'm like doing a parachute song or game or whatever, and I just say, Can you believe we get paid to do this? Can you believe this is our job? I genuinely love it.

SPEAKER_00: 5:02

So is that your full-time job? You're teaching full-time and then you're doing your well, I was when I first started.

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

I was I was running two classrooms and doing that, which is absolutely mad. Do you not recommend absolutely crazy?

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

Um, but now it's uh two days teaching and and then and then the rest is around the old your business now, the sensory class. Oh, totally, yeah. What we were going to talk about today is something that people might not think or know about you, is that actually you have been and do foster children.

SPEAKER_01: 5:35

Yeah, so um I did it for around two years. Um, yeah, before I moved to Cornwall. Yeah, and it's something that I've got a tiny little highlight on my Instagram that's way at the back, because I'd obviously don't share into it anymore about foster care. Yeah, and it's a big part of my journey into what I'm sharing now, my passion for it.

SPEAKER_00: 5:55

And I was we we met, didn't we? Because I kind of came onto your podcast and we were talking about we know, you know, come on to mine and what we're going to talk about, and we were thinking about the sensory stuff and all that. And you just little dropped it in something about, oh, what was that about? Because we've I've never had a parent on that is a foster parent, they've all been birth parents. So I thought, you know, for the untypical parent podcast, we need what's more untypical, yeah. We need them to have this conversation, so I was really you know excited to hear that that's what you've done in the past. So I suppose I link into that. I always ask everyone that comes on, you know, are you the perfect parent? So, Jordan, are you the perfect parent?

SPEAKER_01: 6:39

My god, absolutely not. And um I think I can share in the way I do, and what makes me different from other teachers and other parents that share is that I have experience that straddles both worlds. Yeah, um, I am so privileged to have had experience of the weight of being an SED parent, but the luxury of dipping in and out of it.

SPEAKER_02: 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:11

And I would never um say that I have fully experienced it because what the biggest part of being an SED parent is the relentlessness and the staring down a barrel of when am I getting my break? That massive part of being an S and D parent, I didn't have. The fear of what happens when you're gone, all of those big fears I didn't have. So I would hate to even remotely say that I understand. However, the day-to-day weight of it, the pressure of being everybody wearing all the hats and advocating, uh, absolutely, I've lived it.

SPEAKER_00: 7:50

And the the young people and the kids that you've had come and be fostered by you, did they all have additional needs?

SPEAKER_01: 7:58

Uh most, just because of my area of expertise, like they'd be civilized and not or not. We did have a uh teenage girl for eight days um that was neurotypical. But of course, they everybody, every child in foster care has trauma. So you're kind of yeah, so you're kind of supporting them in a similar way, honestly. Um, everybody's unique, but everybody comes with their own stuff, whether it's neurotypical or experienced um based. They all have their own stuff. So, but yeah, uh the other uh three had diagnosed um disabilities, which is why they were with me. Um, two of them were respite care, so they had uh they were very safe and very happy and healthy in their families, um, but I provided respite for their parents, so that's a fantastic thing that we can talk about. It's a fantastic, fantastic system that is is available for um so many parents and they don't know about it, so that's for one thing. Um, I had a foster child for 11 months full-time who's out of education, so that's kind of how I understand that side of things, you know, really trying to find a school for him and all of those kind of things, full-time 100% parent being everybody, no social worker for three months, that kind of fight kind of situation. I've been there, lot you know, felt that. And then, yeah, this teenager for eight days, um, who kept running away and phoned the police most days. So I feel like I've I've had an experience, a little inkling of what it feels like to be a parent in the most complicated of ways. I kind of jumped right in the deep end, I suppose, without being your baby phase and yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:42

Yeah, because it's the kind of there isn't the kind of build-up that you might get if you had kids from birth and you were the their birth parent, that you kind of get that build up, but also you know, talking about the fact that they might have S and D needs, but then like also, like you said, that that attachment um and trauma element for those children as well can be huge, and behaviours can be very big and things feel very unsafe for those kids, and that adds another layer of complexity to S and D needs.

SPEAKER_01: 10:14

The fact that we weren't parents first, the fact that my parents uh that my husband even went for the idea is incredible, um, because it was totally my idea. Um, but yeah, the fact that we hadn't even been parents before, so it's it changed our entire home, it changed our entire world. It it was mad to do, really, in the way that we did it. But it if I was gonna do it, it was always gonna be S End. That is what made you do it?

SPEAKER_00: 10:39

What made you what made you go down the foster route?

SPEAKER_01: 10:42

Good question. Um in my special needs school, I saw that some of the children were fostered or at least respite, had respite care. And I didn't think they were doing a good enough job. Okay. And rather than just judging them and moving on, I wanted to step into that role and think, well, if I'm gonna judge them that they're not doing a good enough job, then I can't leave it there. I then I saw a need and tried to feel that need, I suppose, which is such a drop in the ocean. But that's just me, and that's why I started this account, honestly. I saw a need, I looked around and thought, is anyone else gonna do this? No, okay. I guess it's me then. I'll do it, yeah. Yeah, a bit little red head. I am a bit like that. Fine, I'll do it myself. You know, I am a bit like that anyway. So I think I saw a need and yeah, and was intrigued as to you know, could I could I do it how I feel like it could be done? What is the impact of that? It's the process. That was the initial.

SPEAKER_00: 11:49

I was gonna say, is the process long to be able to get to do the fostering? Is it like a long time?

SPEAKER_01: 11:54

Yeah, well, it's typically around three or four months. Apparently, so yeah, so that's that's if your house is ready and your your life is ready, um, which we were doing an extension at the time, so ours actually took a bit longer. But yeah, typically, if you would uh contact your uh social service team and say you're interested, they'll be oh my god, they'll come around the next day. Well about it. Um they are so desperate for respite carers and emergency carers and full-time foster carers. Actually, it's all it's they uh they will come down the next day. And then um an external um social worker will do your get all your information, get all your reports ready. And that's the bit that takes quite a few months. It's quite in-depth. They want to know everything about not just you but your extended family, your support network. They go to ask your friends and family and children. It's really important that everybody is on board with this and that you have a support network around you because they understand that it's a lot you're taking on. So, yeah, that that's about three or four months, and then you go to panel, and the panel is made up of social workers, uh, ex-foster children, um, or children that are fostered, children that are fostered, um uh maybe doctors, nurses, teachers, um, and they decide whether you've passed or not. Typically, you don't go to panel and if you don't, if you don't pass, you know, the the social worker that's doing your report wouldn't get you to panel, wouldn't get you to do panel if they weren't confident that you would get it. But so that's it's not as scary as it looks. But they ask you a few questions like what would you do if, you know, all those kind of things, and then they tell you you've passed straight away, and then you start getting calls the next day um for for children, and and that's a lot. We were getting eight referrals a day, and they're photo-less, nameless sheets of paper with initials, and with the most horrendous stuff on them, and you just want all of them. So I said yes to everybody, and they don't all go to you just because you say yes doesn't mean they go into your home, it just means that you're in the pool of you know, who lives closest to their local school, who lives closest to their family, so they can do contact and all of those kind of things. So we were saying yes every day to all of these horrendous cases, and I just wanted all of them, and it that alone takes its toll on you, reading these nameless sheets of paper.

SPEAKER_00: 14:23

I was gonna say then, how does that kind of do for you? Because actually, that's that's a kind of you know, we talk about kind of secondary trauma that you know you can by reading somebody else's trauma can be really triggering for some people.

SPEAKER_01: 14:37

Yeah, the first ten, you know, you imagine them in your home and you imagine what it would look like to have a child that smears on the wall. You know, can we do that? Is it can we say yes to him? Who's gonna say yes if we don't? You know that they're all the things that you know, maybe they're only smearing because they're in the wrong place, and they're the kind of questions that we're talking about, you know. Can we have a disabled, physically disabled child? That means we'd need a hoist in our room, you know. Is are we gonna do that? You know, that probably means we're adoption, and you know, you're you're talking about a sheet of paper, but really you're talking about, you know, it's a big, it's a big thing, really big thing. Huge. Um, so yeah, they're the kind of conversations you're having. And we were saying yes to a lot of children, and and um and when you say yes, you're agreeing to all of it, whatever isn't on the paper, whatever they don't know about as well, which is a lot. Um, and then you wait on the phone for a phone call, whether it's you never hear if it's a no, but you hear if it's a yes. And so every time you get a phone call, you yeah, yeah. And then they turn up within you know 12 hours after they've said yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:47

So and how do you how do you look after yourself in that? Because like you just talked about, then I could see that that there's almost that, you know, your that anxiety for you as a foster parent waiting is is living with that anxiety. Am I getting someone? And not maybe an anxiety that it's a bad thing, but it's the unknown and what that brings me. It's a trend to manage.

SPEAKER_01: 16:07

Yeah, it is anxiety, it's the unknown. Um, it's trying to be as prepared as you can be. I think all the similar feelings of when you're pregnant and you're waiting for your baby, like you've done all the reading, you've done all the training, you've got everything in place. You you busy yourself by getting the room ready and imagining what it will be like, which is totally a gar gar of reality of what it's actually gonna be like. But you're kind of in this kind of dream state. I think it's honestly I can't compare, but I think it's probably really similar. But you know, getting extra clothes ready and and just being in their room and just sitting in it, imagining what it would be like. I think it I think I've felt all those things. It's just my child that was gonna come was gonna be a 10-year-old ball of chaos. But I think all those feelings are really the same. That anxious, excitement, nervousness, can I really do this? What the hell are we doing? All of those feelings I think are probably really similar to an expectant parent.

SPEAKER_00: 17:05

And do you think there's something in there as well about that? You know, we talk about being a the perfect parent, but is being able to do this perfectly for this child, the responsibility that comes with that. I can just imagine or only imagine that it must be huge that I want to get this right for this kid.

SPEAKER_01: 17:22

They've had such a totally, and I would hate to say it's more than a typical parent, but I think it is because it's someone else's child, yeah, and they've already been through so much, they've already been through too much, more than you would ever even know, more than the social workers know, more than they even realise, probably. Yeah, um, the boy that we had for 11 months, a lot came out through his play, just in random conversation. A lot came out through when we were driving the car, and we still we had him for a year, and we still don't really know what went on. Um, but there were conversations like, oh, my favourite dinner was um Kristen ice cream, and we'd get that from the shop, and um, it came out that when he was about five, he was actually the carer for his nan, even though his nan should have been the carer for him. Um yeah, his dad lived them for a while, who was a sex offender. Um, yeah, a lot came out. Yeah, and we were reading Harry Potter at the time, that was quite interesting. He related a lot to Harry Potter, and things would come out of calling himself a mud blood, and he really related to that, like yeah, that feeling, so that it's yeah, that his yeah, came up through play. We're playing with dolls. I did a lot through play with him because we were at home full time together, right? So we did a lot through play, and um, and it came out that the mum would leave to go on holiday and leave the children with a homeless person through his play, and we didn't know that before, the social care didn't know that before. So it's just it all you know, you read this piece of paper, and they even had his diagnosis wrong in the piece of paper. We had no idea what child we were getting, and you learn them through weeks and months of just being together, and you feel the enormity of what you're doing, and yeah, the responsibility is massive to not let them down again, yeah, and that was what carried me through that year and actually made it really bad for my health. Was the weight of being the only person in the world that seems to want to do right by this child, and that's enormous.

SPEAKER_00: 19:45

That's huge. And I think just as you were talking, then it gave me goosebumps as you were talking, and then and I was thinking, how how did how did you look after you in that?

SPEAKER_01: 19:55

I don't think I did a very good job. Talking about the unperfect parent, I didn't look after myself enough. Um, I was going through therapy at the same time because I'd lost my dad before um we'd started fostering, which is also another pull to fostering. I wanted to, yeah, I felt really privileged to have such wonderful parents, and I kind of without knowing at the time, I think I felt like everybody deserved a parent like that. Um so I think that was a bit of a pull as well. So yeah, I was going through therapy for that, and actually it didn't end up as breathing therapy at all. It ended up as very much let's get through the day Jordan therapy. Um, and I drew a picture for her, and I think lots of SEND parents can relate to this. I drew a picture of me. Um, it was very much a doodle, don't imagine, but imagine it was an incredible picture. Um, of me with my hands like um in kind of like a prayer stance above my head.

SPEAKER_02: 20:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:49

And he, the foster child, was standing on my palms, and I was underwater. And everybody was telling me what a great job I was doing. Because I was doing such a great job for him. I was everything he needed to be. I was the most incredible advocate, I was the incredible teacher, I was going above and beyond. We were doing foster, uh, we were doing uh forest school, we were going on walks, we were doing cafes, we were doing cinema, swimming, we were, I was everything and more that he needed me to be. But I was absolutely drowning. Yeah, I couldn't breathe. Yeah, and all I was getting wasn't support, it wasn't getting me out of the water, it was just telling me what an incredible job I was doing. And I was drowning. And I think that experience and that feeling sets me apart from other teachers that share about S End on social media. Yeah, because I've been that parent, I really have. Like, yeah, we didn't have a social worker for three months, we weren't in school at that time. I was the only professional in this child's life, and that made me incredibly vulnerable. Yeah, because he could have said he was speaking, he could have said that we were doing anything, and there was no professional to check on us. I felt so isolated at that time. Um, and before we were fostering, everybody was super keen to get involved, and yeah, we'll help, we'll help. Oh, isn't this fun? It wasn't the reality. When they saw then that this boy wasn't cute and four and and quiet and sweet, and all those things they imagined it would be, when he was a big bowling, fifth the size of a 15-year-old, 10-year-old, with that self-harmed and said he was gonna die and was really big and bulky and scary to them. I mean, I I think he was adorable. I I think you know, that's the worst of him. That that's what they saw, this raging bull of anger and trauma. Um, they didn't want to know. Do you want to were people worried for you? Did you get people say we're worried for you?

SPEAKER_00: 23:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 23:04

I lost an incredible amount of weight, and and looking back at photos, I just look gaunt and ill. Yeah, but it isn't helpful when you're in that moment, them saying, Oh, like you look unwell. Yes, but you're not helping. Of course I do. Nobody is helping me. I'm trying so hard to make it right for this child, and nobody is helping me. No schools, you know. We tried a school, he lasted three weeks and got expelled. That was the school that I'd been in for 10 years. You know, I loved that school so much. I thought if any school is gonna take him, it's gonna be that school that I love and that I poured so much passion into for those 10 years, he lasted three weeks. They couldn't even make it work for that. They didn't even try. Um, social worker, none, nothing for three months as they were, and we had so many social workers. I mean, God, that's the that's that's been in social care, isn't it? I mean, I'm loaded. Lots of SEND parents could do that.

SPEAKER_02: 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:01

I didn't even know who the caseworker was. Um, and I know you can relate to that. Um, yeah, just there was nobody consistent apart from our own social worker. So as a foster parent, you have your own social worker as well as the child social worker, and she was consistent and she was incredibly strong, and the agency as well that we were with, we weren't with county council, we were with an independent agency. I'm really grateful for that. Nothing against county. I've had actually really good experience with the county council uh foster team um since then as well, actually. So maybe that's unfair, but we were very incredibly supported by them, um, apart from the promise for respite, and then nobody at nobody, no respite carers actually wanting him. Um, so yeah, it was a lot. 24-7, no respite, very, very little support network, never been a parent before, no social worker, no school, 100% off you go.

SPEAKER_00: 24:55

And that's that sounds so scary. And I think some of the work I've done in the background is I've worked with um looked after children uh and done the trauma and attachment side of um OT and worked with those kids and those families. And you know, often I was coming across families, and I often felt it was just one of those really awful situations, I think, where they felt that if they just loved them enough, everything would be okay. But actually, in the reality, the support network wasn't there, and the love helped, but actually, the support network that needs to go around those families and those parents that it needs to be, you know, absolutely rock solid for those that's the point.

SPEAKER_01: 25:39

If the parent needs to just wear the parent hat, if the parent could just wear the parent hat, they would be able to do that, yeah. You know, but what we're asking of parents because there's so many failing systems, is they also need to wear the social worker hat and they also need to wear the teacher hat, and they also need to wear, you know, all of these different hats, and then that's when they feel like they're a failure. That's when they feel like they're not coping. No wonder. We are asking them to do the absolute impossible. Um, and it was a it was a luxury of a it was a job for me. I hadn't been born into it, I had chosen to do it. You know, I am aware of that. That is what's different. I was fully trained, not prepared, but I was fully trained. Um, I had chosen to do it, I could leave it at any time. I didn't feel like I could, but I could. And that is the difference between what I was feeling and what an S End parent feels, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:44

Um, because I didn't want to leave it, but I could. And in the end, that is what happened. We were 11 months in, and um I just noticed I was really distant. I wasn't doing any of the things that I was doing before, and actually, everybody was still telling me what a great job I was doing, and the social worker was still telling me, but you're going, you're doing way more than any other social worker, um, any other foster carer, but it wasn't good enough for me. I wasn't doing what I want, I felt he needed, and that wasn't good enough. I was burnt out for want of a better word. I was absolutely, I mean, to be honest, I didn't know it was going to get here, but I was suicidal at that point.

unknown: 27:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 27:33

Because I felt like, and I feel like when people are suicidal, it's because they feel trapped, yeah, and it's their only way out. So I felt trapped by the promise to him. I felt trapped by um looking like a failure. I felt trapped like I told everybody that I was gonna do this thing, and then I couldn't do it, and I was letting him down. And I didn't want to do that, so I felt like the only way out was that, which is which seems so crazy now, because of course that wasn't going to help anybody. But at the time, I genuinely saw that as the only way that I didn't have to deal with all of that. Yeah, and I could still get out and have a rest, which is crazy. But that's the point I got to, and as soon as I started having those feelings, I just knew it was done. So that was the I have done it since then. I've I've fostered um three children since then. Um, but that particular um child, I just I just couldn't do it anymore. I couldn't be everybody anymore. 11 months is a very long time being everybody, and it was when he that school placement broke down. So we'd spent 10 months uh fighting for a school placement, and then he had the three weeks, and then uh because he kept saying that he wanted to die, um they felt like he was too much of a risk, and um and they couldn't take him. And that was my last resort. Those three weeks I could finally breathe, and I felt like it was done, and we could actually do this, and I could have him till he was 25, and all of those things that I really wanted, and then when that break broke down, I I couldn't do it anymore. And how come we had him for another we had him for another month after I decided that because I'd promised him that we'd take him to Disneyland. And um, he'd never been on holiday before, he'd never been out of the country before, um, and he'd never had a passport before, so we'd fought for months and months and months. The the the hoops you have to jump through for haircuts, the hoops you have to jump through for getting, yeah, anything he wanted for foster carer. Sometimes, yeah, um, you have to ask permission for everything, but passport was a nightmare. Um, but we'd finally got this passport and everything had fallen apart. But I just said, I have promised him that we are taking him to Disneyland. We are taking him to Disneyland. So already we'd got the date of when he wasn't going to be with us, but we still I had to really fight to prove that I was well enough to take him. Um, and um, and they let us take him and we took him to Disneyland. Um, because that was my last promise to him. I couldn't let him down on that. That was my last, like, I think it was a bit of a promise of myself as well, of like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:18

And you gave him a different experience in that time, you know, whatever had gone before that.

SPEAKER_01: 30:22

And he had no idea that I was struggling as much as I was. Like, think about that back to that drowning pitcher. He had no idea. He actually he was thriving, he was doing really well. He was, but that was almost made it worse that he was doing really well, but I couldn't keep going for that. And it was gonna be that he would have started sinking, and I I couldn't let that happen under my watch.

SPEAKER_00: 30:43

Yeah, and that's a really you know, I can hear in the way that you're talking what a difficult decision that was to make, but probably one of the best decisions for him and you.

SPEAKER_01: 30:55

The thing is, I'll never know, yeah, and that's also the hard thing about foster care is you never know, yeah. Um, yeah, you put everything into them. No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 31:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 31:10

I think it's important that people see the reality. It isn't just a job.

SPEAKER_00: 31:15

And just to reassure people as well. Yeah, but you've got support now, haven't you? You've got support. You've had help going through that years ago. Yeah, yeah. So but you you can still see how much that has an impact on you.

SPEAKER_01: 31:30

And yeah, because he's 20 now.

unknown: 31:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 31:33

His birthday is the 21st of February every year. I think about him.

SPEAKER_00: 31:37

Yeah. Do you ever get do you ever get any feedback once they move on from you? Do you ever know anymore?

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

Where he went next, and I knew where he went next after that. The trail goes cold after there. Because it's I mean, who knows how many homes he's been in. I know he's gonna be in care until he's 25 because he has special needs.

SPEAKER_00: 31:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:57

Um, so he's somewhere.

SPEAKER_00: 32:00

Yeah, and that must be a hard bit sitting with that as a foster carer. You give all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 32:05

Yeah, because I I stopped it because I knew I wasn't doing enough. But I'm also aware of the reality that my not enough is more than enough for other people, yeah. So it's also accepting the reality that it might not be better, yeah. It might be a lot worse.

SPEAKER_00: 32:27

Yeah, yeah. If you go back, Jordan, to those kind of thinking of your foster time your time when you've fostered kids, what are the positives that have come out of it? Because we and I know for you, you know, you you do want to talk about the how hard it it was, and so people do know and the impact that it had on you, but you also said to me before we started that there was a lot of positives from foster being a foster parent.

SPEAKER_01: 32:53

Well yeah, there is, and I've looked at foster care, and I don't want people to listen to this and think, oh god, I'm never doing that. Actually, I think the world would be a better place if everybody did it. Yeah, and I think um everybody, I mean, god, I can't imagine you not having a heart for um children in care, um, especially as a parent, you know, you can't imagine it. And and also I have a lot of love for his. I said one of the first thing I'm gonna start with is might we might be um controversial, is it really surprised me the love I had for his mum. Um she was at all the meetings, and his nan actually. Um she was at all of our meetings. We met up with her at least once a year, but but more more than that often. Um I've met her about four or five times, and I felt she was let just as let down by the system as he was, actually, and I was, and I had real love for her, yeah. Um she was just in a cycle of her own trauma, and that really surprised me. But I really was just as much an advocate for her in those meetings as I was for him, maybe even more. Okay, and that was a really beautiful insight, actually. I feel like I'm a better human for that experience, actually. Yeah, um, and it was really lovely to see she did love him. She she was trying her best, actually, and her best was not deemed good enough, and and she kept trying more and more, and the bar kept raising, which I think was really unfair. I think it was right that the kids weren't with her, I think they were safe or not. But she, yeah, my heart went out to her actually. So I think the first one would be the positives out of it was it's really changed my outlook as a person, and it's made me a lot more accepting and open to different experiences. And actually, I think if I'd have walked in her shoes, I'd have been making similar decisions to her too. And and um I'm no better, and I just don't I just don't think we can judge anybody if we haven't experienced what they've experienced. So that's the first thing I would say is it just makes you a better human, yeah. Um and then yeah, we had a lot of laughs, you know, it's it's a luxury to be an SND parent and it be your full-time job, you know. I wasn't having to juggle work as well, is a luxury. I think lots of S D parents would jump at the chance of that being their full-time job without you know, take away the weight of being everybody and not having that respite and everything. It was such a luxury to just be us two and to play and to know that I didn't have to juggle that with anything else, apart from you know organising the house, I suppose. I could just be all for him and everything he needed to be, and that was really great. It's so great that the foster care system can allow that. I mean, it was a luxury to for that to be able to be my job, yeah. Um, and yeah, we did have we had lots of laughs together. I've got lots of lovely videos actually somewhere. Um, I think they're they're still on my social media, not of his face, but on one of the videos he was wearing a mask, so I was able to share it. He was um he was uh a Black Panther, and um yeah, we had some really lovely times, and then also what's come out of it is a beautiful, unique insight. I mean, what person could say they have been able, or without bereavement, had to say they've been an SEND parent, but then aren't living that life now. So I've got the experience of what it is to have that and that understanding, but then without with the time now to be an advocate. Yeah, like I think that's such a unique and special position to be in, and that isn't lost on me that I get the benefit of both without experiencing bereavement because usually a parent would only experience that if they have lost a child, and that's very different. They're still an incredible advocate, but it's different. Um not that I didn't go through cycles of grief for it, but it's very different. Um, so yeah, I feel like an incredibly um privileged position to straddle both worlds, and I think that's what sets me apart, actually. And I think without even knowing my story, people can see that through what I'm saying and how I'm sharing, um that I get it in more ways than people really realise, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 37:46

And I think they might they might misjudge that actually because they they might not know this bit about you in the background that this is what you've done, and that she ask you how or kind of what what you took from that into your teaching, how that impacted your teaching.

SPEAKER_01: 38:03

It certainly changed how I spoke to, judged, and spoke about parents.

SPEAKER_02: 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:10

Because before it's so easy to say, well, why don't they just use the communication cards at home? It would be so much better. Or why don't they um they never write in the communication book or um I don't know, whatever it is. They're always so nagging, whatever it is. I don't think I actually said that, but you know, it's really easy to fall into those traps of why don't they just do that? Why don't they just is a really is a sentence starter, isn't it? Um but I was naive, I was new to, you know, I've never been a parent before, even let alone, you know, S End parent. So it's really easy to charge. Um, but I haven't done that since.

SPEAKER_00: 38:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:46

So here I'll go and be up and above and beyond to to make sure communication is how the parent can communicate, whatever it is, and and um to get to know their family, to be the support worker they need. I put a lot of pressure on myself to be the support work they need because I understand how isolating it is, I understand how what it feels like to for the only person for you to speak to in the days to be a supermarket cashier and they're rude to you. I've been there. I know that if that's your only conversation you can have that day, and you are rude to me and it's in Tesco or whatever. Like I've been there. So I get that those phone calls when a parent is calling you, you could be the only conversation they have had that day. You definitely could be the only person as a teacher that gets their child and knows their child. None, their family might not. So I think I felt like the importance of the teacher-parent relationship and how a teacher can fill some of the gaps and take some of the weight off, I think. Yeah, yeah, because that's what I needed. I needed a school to say, we accept your child for whatever they are, and we will make it work, we will not give up on them. And um, I can very proudly say that in the 10 years since then, I have never given up on a child, however hard it's got. I've just managed it, you know, because if they're gonna be poorly or asleep or hurting at school, then they're gonna be doing that at home too. It doesn't stop the behavior just because you send them home. They're still gonna be poorly, they're still gonna be tired, they're still gonna be whatever. It's just the parent has to deal with it. I so I say, and we I say to my team, they can sleep here, they can be poorly here, they can be. Sad and hurting here because what it does is it gives our parents six hours of catching up with themselves. Because let's face it, they're not having a jolly, like they're catching up with themselves, giving themselves a breather so that they can cope with that through the night. Because otherwise, what you're doing is it's not going to help the child if you're sending them home. So I think that's that shifted massively that reality of even if we are just respite for this parent, that is enough. Even if we haven't taught this child anything, just keeping them safe and giving that parent that choice of let's go, or filling out that letter or fight emailing that thing, whatever it is, because it's a full-time job being an S E and D parent. Um then that is still we've still done a good job.

SPEAKER_00: 41:19

And it's about, isn't it? I think I talk about creating a bigger backup team, and I think the bit that I felt when we were in complete crisis as a family was that nobody checked in on me, nobody asked me. A bit, you know, like you were saying, you've kind of felt really alone and you were holding it all, and that pit that visual picture you describe is really hits home actually for me when you talk about that, and you're kind of you say under the water, holding on to this, and holding my breath would be a big description about what I talk about with it. Is that you're kind of holding your breath trying to get to the next step where I can, like you just did then, exhale. Um, and when your kids aren't in school, they're not able to go to school, or schools aren't able to meet their needs. That's ginormous. And I talk about with the work that I do is about building that bigger backup team, and I'm going into schools and helping schools and even businesses now. I'm starting to go into businesses and support because parents out there are trying to work as well as do this. Um, and like you say, you know, lots of parents. Huge, yeah, huge. Um, you know, and when your kids are that in much in crisis, your job's in at risk.

SPEAKER_01: 42:26

Um relationships, like so many uh single parents, yeah. Because God, how I mean God, you haven't even got enough time for yourself. How can you yeah, how can you pour into a relationship? You you you could have you know the best promising relationship in the world.

SPEAKER_00: 42:43

I I I yeah, I yeah, when you have that when there's that much of pressure and that much crisis, even the tiniest cracks become you know, whacking great.

SPEAKER_01: 42:53

Yeah, you're just you're distant, you haven't got any energy for anything else. Yeah, um, yeah, so it yeah, it's gonna impact every everything. Yeah, your friendships as well, you know. I wasn't seeing friends because one, because I didn't want their judgment or shame to be present around him, he deserved better than that. Okay, so I chose not to see them because I I didn't know that they would, but I didn't even want to give it the chance that they could remotely give him a look or anything. I didn't want him, I wanted to protect him from that. So I didn't that that made me then choose not to see those friends, which then broke down those friendships, and yeah, it happens, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 43:40

Yeah, yeah. Jordan, if there was a parent out there today, whether they're it could be that they're foster parents, um, because I do want to get that, you know, I don't want to miss this group of parents that are out there, foster parents, it could be um adoptive parents, um, but also maybe a parent that's having a tricky time and you know, kids are out of school or you know, big behaviours at home that are causing a lot of stress. What would be what would be your your one bit of advice?

SPEAKER_01: 44:08

Yeah, it's ridiculous when I say that because you know it I think it's a really great question, and I think I I was messaging somebody on TikTok yesterday actually, around the fear of social care. There's this there's this really awful idea that social care are the are evil and the deaths. They're gonna take your kids away. And I think so many parents are so terrified of the term social care whenever it's mentioned because they are terrified. One bringing them into their home when they know it's not perfect, um bringing them into their world and seeing the reality is terrifying to them because their one fear is that their child will be taken away. And I I cannot say it enough that that is not what social care is, it is such a last resort. You it is so difficult to have a child taken away, you know. As a teacher, I've worked with lots of children on the on the you know, child protection register, and I cannot tell you the enormity of the situations that some of these children in and they were still at home with both parents being disabled and having complex needs, you know, um, all three children having a high level of disability, and still the social care system is built to keep them together as much as they can. One, even if it's not for care, even if it's just for finances, the cost of children being in foster care means that the social care system, even if there is no heart in the system, even if it is just financial, which it might be, they wouldn't take your children away because the cost of that is enormous. So I just want parents to know don't be scared to phone social services, don't be scared to share your reality, be honest with them because that's the only way you're going to get any help. And foster care is amazing. Respite foster care is I never knew how incredible it is. It it is our lifeline, it's the only reason we kept going for those 11 months. And I've been a respite foster carer since then, and it is wonderful. It you run it like your own business if you want to. So you can vet the people, you choose the people if you want to. Um you know, they kind of get paid as a personal assistant in a way. That's another offer that social care do. You know, it can be respite overnights where your children get to stay overnight, and it's consistent, it's the same person every time. And uh, they might it might be one day a week, it might be a couple of times a month, you know, whatever works for you and your family. You basically get awarded however many hours, and you can use them what you will, you know, however you want to. It can just be in school holidays if you want to, and they get a little holiday, and they love it because the respite carer is rested, so they get to um take them to all these fun places and be like fun auntie, whoever, and they have a great time, and they're everything they need them to be, like a little holiday. And what it means for you and your family is you can pour into the siblings and you can pour into um yeah, yourself, by themselves, yeah. It just keeps you going, it just keeps you going, it keeps you being the best parent that you want to be. So respite care is amazing. Everybody wins with respite care, totally. I'm such an advocate. Um, and anyone can be a respite carer. As long as you've got a spare bedroom in your house, um, anyone could be a respite carer, whether you are on benefits, whether you work, whether you don't, whether you're a single parent. Um, yeah, uh whether you've got pets, whether you've got your own children, no children, anybody can be a respite carer. All you need is a spare bedroom. And around Christmas time, maybe not even that, because they're so desperate for something for these children. Um, and then emergency care as well is is something where um we've been an emergency carer for a wonderful family. Uh, she's a single parent of an autistic child who we're still in contact with now, 14 years later. Um, and she uh went and had to go into hospital. Oh, okay. And she had sepsis, so she had to be in hospital for three months. And who's gonna have her little boy? Uh so we were his emergency foster carers. He, you know, he wasn't in any danger at home. She was a wonderful parent, but she had no, well, she did have support network, but her dad and and sister couldn't take that on right now. That wouldn't have been the safest place for him. Um, so we were his respite care, and every week or a few times a week, I'd collect him from school and take him to the hospital so he she could see him and they could see each other. And then when she was home but still recovering, we still had him, but she'd we'd go there and they'd spend time together, and we were kind of that support. And I think that's a real fear for parents of what happens if something happens to me. Whereas if you've already got those relationships built up through respite care, the natural person to take on your child through those uh-oh moments is that respite carer, and they will do that for you. It it extends your support network in in such a beautiful and wonderful way, and that's something that social care can provide that nobody talks about, and everybody every parent feels like a failure if they can't do it all themselves. But actually, the reality is that you can be the parent that you feel like you want to be because of this, because you're allowing other people in. Um, yeah, and yeah, just everybody wins. So the one bit of advice would be when people mention Maru and when people mention social care and social workers, don't hold that in fear and don't avoid it. Just have the conversation. Maybe it's not right for you right now, maybe it's not right for your child right now. But I'd have that conversation for sure, and I'd be really honest and open with them because I promise you they've seen it all. No social worker will walk into a room, into your house. If you're listening to this podcast, I can already tell you they will walk into your house and be absolutely not shocked because you're here, you clearly are here because you want to do your best for your child. So yeah, um, yeah, they've seen it all, nothing will shock them. My god, yeah, nothing will shock them.

SPEAKER_00: 50:28

That's a really good thing to know about because I suppose I you know I've had similar kind of feelings. We had um as when my son was out of school, we had social care come in, and I do remember that conversation when they saying to me we're going to refer to social care, and I was like, What? And had that very old, kind of fashioned thought that they're gonna take my son away. It's very easier, isn't it? It is, and even though I had worked with families and had worked in cams and all courts of exactly as you say, you're ringing up social service going, I need some help. Well, it's harder to get the help.

SPEAKER_01: 50:59

Like that this is this is the thing. This is the thing. It is harder to get the help. So if you're and also if you say no too many times, they stop offering it, yeah, and it goes on your the register system. So if you say no when they're seven, eight, nine, but then you really need it at 16, 17, 18, it's still on your record that you said no to it. So I want parents to be aware of that as well. It's not, I don't want to fear-monger you, but it is something that you only get offered so many times. So even if you're just dabbling into it through respite care, the odd, you know, it could be four times a year, even if you're just taking advantage of that, it means you're in the system. So things automatically get worse. If you get ill or hurting behaviors, you know, get worse, or a sibling, I don't know, any like so much can happen. Yeah, you're already in the system, so then they have a responsibility to care for you and your child. Whereas if you're out of the system, a bit like you're out of school, you're then fully out of the system. And if things change, it's really hard to then get the help you need. So, yeah, if you're being offered support, take take it, I think, is my advice. And there are so many wonderful foster carers out there, so many. And one of the parents at my school uh is an adoptive parent and a foster parent, and um, she's just wonderful, she's the granny that you would want all your children to have, and she does such a great job with um babies, actually. And um, yeah, there's so many out there, and and no foster parent does it for the money, I can assure you. They're all there because they really, really do want to make a difference. Yeah, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 52:31

Jordan, I just want to say thank you ever so much for coming on. I think this I can't thank you enough because I think you've been really open and honest, and I could see, you know, emotionally for you still where this takes you. Um, and I think it's really brave of you to come on and talk about that. And I think, and I know actually that other parents out there will that will resonate with them and it it feels real. Um, and so thank you for coming on and being uh you know, being so open and honest. I really appreciate you coming on. I'm gonna put all of Jordan's contact details, yeah, um, your website and stuff like that, because you do do like kind of trainings and stuff like that, and yeah, yeah, those on there, um, and obviously all your social media links. But thank you ever so much for coming on. I really appreciate your time, Jordan.

SPEAKER_01: 53:16

Thank you, and it's really uh wonderful to be able to have a platform to share this with. It feels safer sharing on someone else's, so maybe I'll get a bit braver and share it on my own. But um, no, so thank you for that opportunity as well.

SPEAKER_00: 53:28

Oh, you're really welcome. Thanks, Jordan.