The Untypical Parent™ Podcast
Welcome to The Untypical Parent™ Podcast where doing things differently is more than okay. I'm here to challenge the norms and open up conversations that go beyond the stereotypical child, parent and family. This is your go to space for neurodivergent families to find your their backup team—the people who get it. We were never meant to go it alone! We’ll be exploring a wide range of topics, because every family is unique and there’s no one box fits all when it comes to families.
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The Untypical Parent™ Podcast
ADHD, Hormones & Parenting: What no one tells you about
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Sarah West shares her journey as a late-diagnosed ADHD woman navigating the challenges of perimenopause while parenting two neurodivergent daughters. She explains how declining estrogen levels during perimenopause can significantly worsen ADHD symptoms by further reducing dopamine production.
• Understanding the complex relationship between hormones and ADHD symptoms
• Recognising how perimenopause can amplify existing ADHD challenges
• Differentiating between ADHD symptoms and perimenopause effects
• Finding ADHD coaches with proper training and credentials
• Advocating for yourself within healthcare systems that often dismiss women's concerns
• Trusting your instincts when supporting neurodivergent children despite professionals saying otherwise
• Practical strategies for managing ADHD and perimenopause simultaneously
• How previously effective coping mechanisms can suddenly stop working during hormonal transitions
• The value of being authentic with your children about your struggles
You can find the free resources Sarah speaks about in the podcast on her website:
https://www.sarahwest-adhd.com/
We also speak about PMDD, which is an acronym for Premenstrual Dysphoria Disorder, a severe form of premenstrual syndrome (PMS) characterised by intense emotional and physical symptoms that significantly disrupt daily life, impacting mood, behaviour, and physical well-being.
You can find Sarah on:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61573657439110
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarahwest_adhd/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-west-adhd/
I'm Liz, The Untypical OT. I work with parents and carers in additional needs and neurodivergent families to support them with burnout, mental health and well-being. When parents are supported, everyone benefits.
🔗 To connect with me, you find all my details on Linktree:
https://linktr.ee/the_untypical_ot
☕ If you’d like to support the podcast, you can buy me a coffee here:
https://buymeacoffee.com/the.untypical.ot
And if you'd like to contact me about the podcast and join the mailing list please email me at: contact@untypicalparentpodcast.com
Welcome to the Untypical Parent Podcast, where doing things differently is more than okay. I'm Liz Evans and I am the Untypical OT and I am your host. I'm here to open up conversations that go beyond the stereotypical child, parent and family. This is your go-to space to find your backup team, the people who truly get it, because we were never meant to do this alone. Each week, through a mix of guest interviews and solo episodes, we'll explore a wide range of topics, because every family is unique and there's no one size fits all when it comes to parenting. But before we dive in, if you're enjoying what I share and want to support the podcast, you can buy me a cuppa. You'll find all the links in the show notes. Are you ready? Come join me.
Speaker 1:This podcast episode is proudly sponsored by Something Profound. They create funny t-shirts, mugs and, more specifically, designed for neurodivergent people and those with chronic illnesses, because we all deserve a good laugh. A lovely friend of mine gifted me a mug that says not enough spoons to give a fork, and every time I use it it makes me smile. It's such a great reminder to embrace the chaos with a little bit of humour. Brace the chaos with a little bit of humour. Want to grab your own, or know a friend who could do with a laugh? Head over to somethingprofoundcouk and use the code LIZUOT. It's case sensitive, so you'll need to use capital letters for your 15% off your order.
Speaker 1:And don't forget to follow Sam, the founder of Something Profound. And don't forget to follow Sam, the founder of Something Profound. You'll find her on Instagram and Facebook at something underscore profound underscore clothing. If you've got something to say, say it with something profound. Sarah West is an ADHD coach who specialises in supporting women who are either late diagnosed or suspect they have ADHD on navigating the challenges of perimenopause. With 20 years experience as a senior nurse in the NHS and having gone through her own late diagnosis of ADHD, she trained as an ADHD coach. Through her work, she helps women understand their ADHD in the context of hormonal changes, explore the impact of perimenopause on their symptoms and develop personalised tools and strategies to work with their brain and not against it. Sarah, thank you ever so much for joining us on the podcast today. It's lovely to have you with us.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, Liz. Thank you for inviting me. I'm really, really thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1:So we've had a little intro to you, sarah, and what it is that you do, and I'm really looking forward to this conversation because this one means a lot to me and maybe not because I am diagnosed ADHD, but the things around menopause and perimenopause, I think is huge, and I think what will be so exciting about this episode today is that you know it's going to affect all of us born women. You know it's going to affect all of us born women, but also, I suppose it's interesting for those living with those born women, because actually, I know from my partner's perspective, this is all like what is going on with her. So actually I feel that, although people might think, oh, this is just for women, actually it isn't, it is for everybody. This podcast, this episode and I think we'll be I'm really looking forward to having a conversation about this. So thank you so much for coming on. What I always start with, sarah and my listeners are very used to now is my first question to everyone is Sarah, are you the perfect parent?
Speaker 1:Yes, well, I don't mean yes, yes, I am yes, next question no, let me have a sip of water a minute. Well, that feels like it used a preparation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I don't. The perfect parent doesn't exist. You know, perfect doesn't exist and I think anyone who's trying to be perfect or you know, thinks that they might. You know, if you're striving for that, you're really going down the wrong path in your life. And you know, I think, as a parent, I think it's really, really important that you're, you are who you are, as it mean, I'm talking from me personally. I'm not saying, if you're a horrible person, just carry on being horrible, but I'm saying for me, as a parent, I think that you know it's just important that my kids just see that we're human beings and that we're trying our best and that we are fallible, and you know, and that we're trying our best and that we are fallible and you know, and that's life.
Speaker 2:And life is messy sometimes and life is chaotic and and it can be wonderful.
Speaker 2:But if you're trying to pretend that you're perfect or trying to trying to be perfect, my goodness it, it's not achievable and all you'll end up doing is causing a huge amount of damage for yourself and your kids. And and you know, and say, my children are 14 and 17 and you know for me, you know you've got to be. Obviously I don't quite sort of just tell them everything that's in my head. But you know, if there's stuff going on and I'm upset or whatever, and they'll be like what's going on, and if it's appropriate I'll be like, well, this has happened and that's happened, and you know, and they just see that this is life, because, yeah, otherwise, I just don't think it's a very healthy way to be. Your kids need to see that this is. You know the struggles that they have as well. Yeah, otherwise, you're telling your kids this is how you should be and you're just carrying on this, this cycle of let's just keep pretending everything's rosy when often it's not, and that's life and then they get this sense that that's, you know, because they.
Speaker 1:That's what we often do is we, you know, our parents are what we kind of lead us into, what we're going to be and how we're going to behave, and all that kind of thing, and to see our parents be perfect or present as perfect actually is quite a lot of pressure for kids.
Speaker 1:You know, when they get to being parents, they think suddenly, why am I finding this so difficult? My mum never showed this, my mum never got upset, my dad never got upset, my parent never got upset. And actually then, as you say, just kind of self-peruates that that cycle of huge amounts of pressure, huge amounts of pressure that we put on ourselves as parents to be perfect and get it all right all the time, um, and it's hard, I think, sometimes as a parent to be really real with your kids and say I'm having a tough time and, like and like you say, there's that anxiety of, well, how much do I tell them, what can, how much can I give my kids and how, what should I hold on to? Um, and that's a really tricky balance sometimes, because some kids will manage more than others yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think I mean certainly with our children.
Speaker 2:We've always just said to them you know, as long as you're good people and you're trying your best, that's, that's the most important thing for us. And you know, you know, and they, you know, and yeah, we all have rubbish days and stuff, stuff can go on, but you know, as long as they know that we're we're, you know, we, we, we wouldn't do something negative on. You know, on purpose, you know if we are late for something or we, you know, haven't done something, none of it's done on purpose and we're just human beings and we're trying our best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's really the the main, um, you know thing that we'd, I'd want my kids to know and I think that's really important even when you're doesn't matter whether you're in a additional needs family or actually whether we're in a more, um, typical family.
Speaker 1:That actually that goes across the board doesn't it, that's not specific to you know additional needs, families, but you kind of touched on you've got some, you've got two children, so tell us a bit about you and your family, sarah, and who you've got, and what mix, what wonderful mixes you've got in your family.
Speaker 2:So so there's I mean there's me, I'm diagnosed with ADHD and I'm on the pathway to get an autism assessment at the moment, and I've got my husband, who is neurotypical, and and then I've got two daughters One is 14 and she's formally diagnosed with ADHD and autism. And then I've got two daughters One is 14 and she's formally diagnosed with ADHD and autism. And then I've got a 17 year old who's just had a formal autism diagnosis and and also that very strongly suspect she's got OCD, but that's another another thing to talk about at the time.
Speaker 1:And your diagnosis, your kind of ADHD diagnosis. Has that been a later in life diagnosis or when you were younger? So mine?
Speaker 2:I got, I got mine. I think it's about three, three years ago now, two or three years, it'll be three years ago, yeah, yeah, recent, yeah, quite recent. And my younger daughter, she, well, she got her adhd diagnosis was nearly two years ago and she got her formal autism diagnosis about a year ago. But we'd waited nearly four years for that. We were on the waiting list with cams in the meantime. Her mental health really deteriorated within that time frame and I wouldn't, I, I don't, I wouldn't go down that pathway again. And then my, my older daughter, um, we, I feel a real guilt because she, you know, I've got two children, my, who both diagnosed with autism and they both present, incredibly, they're such different people, they're such, yeah, they're both absolutely wonderful, but they're they're autism and their neurodivergence both show up so differently.
Speaker 2:So, my, my older daughter, um, I'd asked teachers at schools, you know, for years I'd said, do you think she's autistic or do you know? And I was told she was quirky. And I was told, oh, no, no, no, no, you know. And then, uh, and, and, you know, and we, just because our understanding of neurodivergence was so different when she was little, yeah, um, that you know, whereas my younger daughters she was much more of a kind of spiky profile or whatever you'd say, much more obvious, and she's very, very much like me how she presents and uh, whereas my older daughters, you know she's quite quiet and a big, you know, like, like she, you know she's lots of well, they've both got lots of anxiety, but, um, yeah, she, she's just presents very differently.
Speaker 2:So I just feel really bad that um, it was only about a year or so ago that um, when she was leaving secondary school and I spoke to one of her teachers and I said, and I said to them, do you think she's autistic? And they said, yes, I do. And no one had ever said that to me before. And suddenly I was like because, um, for her to get the support in her second it, doing her a levels at her college, she had to be on a, she had had had to be on a pathway for, for a diagnosis, for an assessment. Yeah, um so.
Speaker 2:so we were almost forced into, you know, whereas before I'd just been told no, no, no, and we suspected it, but hadn't really done much, and that's really hard, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I think, because you know I can hear you say you know I, you know I feel bad about that, but actually you were, you were asking at that point.
Speaker 1:But actually, and it's really you know, as parents we do go out and ask, especially when possibly it's our first one, because we think, well, is this typical, is this normal, you know? And then people come back and go, oh, no, and you think, oh, I'm just being overdramatic and you know, it's just me, and we go down that route and actually it took. It feels like somebody to say, actually no, I can see this as well that you go oh, it's not just me. Then as well, that you go, oh, it's not just me. Then yeah, but that that's really hard, that when you're trying to find a way forward for your kids, when nobody else is seeing it and I know there are lots of parents that will be listening to this that have been through something similar um, and that's that's really tricky, when you feel like you're seeing something but everybody else is going, oh, they're fine, or the typical, you know, they're fine when they're in school, when you're, when you're not around, they're just fine yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:Well, when she was in school she wasn't fine though that was the thing she wasn't and she spent and I can know it's the same uh story for lots of other people that after Covid, um, you know, she really, really, really struggled attending school and she was mainly in the pastoral office most of the time. If we got her in or we were having phone calls to pick her up and bring her home, and you know so, but because there was no kind of formal thing around it, you know, school did say, oh, she can't go into a smaller room for her GCSEs and she can't do this, and so we, you know we, but then we ended up just saying, well, we just won't bring her in then, and you know. And then they were like, oh, okay, then we'll, you know. Then then they made the accommodations when we started saying, you know her mental health more important in the GCSE.
Speaker 2:So, um, you know it was just, you know you got to that point, um, which is a shame, and I know this is tens of thousands of parents are in the same position where you're just fighting and fighting, you know, and this was just daily. It was just daily stuff, daily. You know me looking at my phone and just multiple texts, you know, just from, from my daughter, just you know asking. You know saying help me, help me, help me. You know I was reading these things when I was in work, saying help me, mum, mum, I can't do this. I, you know I can't stay in school, blah blah. You know all of this and then you know the whole time we were just in this sort of fight and flight constantly.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and meanwhile, in the background I suppose as well, you're getting your diagnoses as well, or you've had your diagnosis by this point. So, in the middle of all this as well, you've got your diagnosis as well. So we know, you know that's tough on us as parents when we are trying to support our kids in systems that often don't support them, and the impact that has on us. But then I suppose, on top of that, you've also got your own diagnosis going on in the background of adhd. And what kind of what did that look like, sarah was how, how did that impact you? Because I suppose you must have been getting to know yourself as an ADHD person. I don't know how you refer to yourself around. You do it um? I know I'm a dyslexic person, but I know, yeah, um, but I suppose I wonder how that, if affected you um it was.
Speaker 2:It was really really hard. Well, it affected me in that I got signed off, work for three months, okay. So well, I got my, I got my diagnosis and um, and, and you know, and, before you get it, you know you, there's so much stuff in your head before leading up to an assessment and the whole time you're thinking am I, am I thinking this, is this real, am I really? You know, is it? You know, you read around it. You do loads, loads of uh, sort of prep work and the whole time you're just over analyzing everything and thinking you know, you know, am I a complete imposter?
Speaker 2:but even going for an assessment, maybe I'm making this up and also there's also, you know, thinking this will explain so much about my life. But what if they come back and say I haven't got it? And then where do I go? And you know, there's all this headspace which has taken up with with this. And then I got my diagnosis and and yes, I mean I was, you know it, it was, it was brilliant to get it and to and I still had imposter syndrome afterwards, kind of like, oh, they were, they, was that really me?
Speaker 1:they got that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that one when I go with my dyslexia.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they've got this for me but also it opens up this complete can of worms as well, where you're suddenly, you know you're, you know it's just taking up all your time. You so much of your headspace thinking about your whole life and you start to join the dots of things that have happened to you and you're thinking about your family members and how that's connected there and all this stuff. And at the same time, I was working as a nurse in the NHS. I was a senior, senior respiratory nurse, um, and also I had, uh, we, you know we've got a few.
Speaker 2:Well, we had some relatives one of them had just died and we were clearing their house and uh, you know, and also trying, you know, we were, we were, I was seeing my younger daughter's mental health deteriorating in front of our eyes and you know, and also my older daughter, who was, you know, we were trying to support her with going into school and staying in school. I feel so guilty that, you know, the whole year, every day, we were like, come on, keep going to school, and you know, and again, but but so you know, that was all of that and trying to run a house and you know, just other daily stuff and it and it just went wrong completely, and and then perimenopause hit as well, and and and I was just, and I kept going and going, and going and thinking I can't do this anymore, but but I have to keep going and I have to get to work and still be smiling and still like, yeah, everything's fine.
Speaker 2:And then I was on the phone to a friend one day and I just said I don't know. And she just she just went, you got off the phone. Right now you phone the GP and you say I can't work, I need to speak to a mental health professional. And that's where we went and I got signed off work for three months.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, so that all came together in like a perfect storm.
Speaker 1:It was hideous yeah yeah, and I think that that kind of leads me on sarah, for the whole reason that I brought you on um was to have a chat around kind of perimenopause and menopause, because actually, so at the moment, your, your kind of specific area is around adhd specifically and menopause and perimenopause. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what kind of brought you to that? Because I kind of can guess yeah, yeah, why did you happen upon that? Where did that come from?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, well, first of all, um, when I was signed off sick from work, um, at the time I had a brilliant GP and he sorted out my HRT. Um, and again, I was read, and I read a lot around that and about how that will help you and I was looking into how it was affecting ADHD and why that was really important to get your HRT sorted, you know, as a foundation before anything else. And also, at the same time, I got an ADHD coach. Well, yeah, it was the first time that I could say to somebody that you know things that happened to me all my life and sort of how you know, sort of how my ADHD was, as it were. You know, so I could talk about.
Speaker 2:You know, I feel really bad that I, you know that I can be really time blind or I'm late to things, or I'm you know stuff that I don't do straight away, and then I feel stupid and lazy and all these things that we've told ourselves all our lives, and it was the first time. And rejection sensitivity as well, and that that I you know. I, when I before, when I got signed off and I'd spoken to, as I say, my GP, was brilliant, but I had spoken to a mental health professional at my GP surgery and I said my rejection sensitivity is really bad and they were like what's that? And I didn't, you know. And when I got a coach, it was the first time that somebody just knew it. They didn't go, what's that or oh, and they didn't make a funny face or you know that. I could just say how things were and they didn't judge me and they understood me and I was just like blimey, that that was.
Speaker 2:You know, I've never. I've had lots of therapy in my life and none of it's really worked. And now I know why, because it was affirmative. But I, with my nursing background and I and I knew that, you know, I just, yeah, I, I knew that I did want to change careers and and when I got a coach, I was just like you know what, I've got so good transferable skills and I could do this. And knowing what happened to me, um, as a woman in the perimenopause, I was like you know, there's going to be thousands and thousands of women just like me and I really want to help them because that was not fun and I was in a very, very dark place in my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. So what might be interesting for people to hear is what kind of, what kind of symptoms might people experience if and when they get to perimenopause and then which then leads on to menopause?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, with the perimenopause, do you mean as an adhd woman, or kind?
Speaker 1:of just generally, because the other thing I was going to touch on there's my brain pinging off, sarah, in another direction. I'm whether you want to make a diagnosis or something, and I'm just thinking as well. I've done quite a lot of reading around it and what I was hearing was is actually women that aren't diagnosed that often when they hit perimenopause that's when the symptoms get more or they're more difficult to hide or kind of get on with it things, and actually it's at those points you see women looking for further assessment yeah, yeah, yeah so I suppose I wonder whether people might not even realize that they could be adhd.
Speaker 1:They might have an inkling or um, but I suppose it's. Yeah, generally, what would be? What would you kind of expect to see in perimenopause and I know that's a huge question yeah, I mean there was, there was.
Speaker 2:There's a few kind of layers there because, um, there's a lot of overlapping symptoms between adhd and the perimenopause, okay, um, so you know, like brain fog and anxiety gets a lot worse, and you know, imposter syndrome and your uh, like emotional regulation, you know, you, that that really, you know, can really really get worse as well. And you know, irritability, your sleep is getting worse and all of these things. And some people might say, oh well, when I hit perimenopause I got ADHD or whatever, but ADHD is a lifelong condition, so you'll know, you know you're. So if you and this is something I've got, and I've got downloads on my way, that sounds really like salesy but it's not meant to be, but they're free downloads and they're show and they are. They do show the differences between the two and the overlaps between them, because I'll make sure I put those in the show notes for people, because I think that would be really interesting, sarah.
Speaker 2:Um, because, because they really do cross over um, but certainly with the adhd, because so when you're going into the perimenopause, so when you've got adhd, we've got this deficit in um dopamine, yeah, which is why we've got this interest-based nervous system and you know we're not an importance one, which is what neurotypicals have. So this is why we struggle often with getting stuff done, or we procrastinate, and you know we get overwhelmed, but but because we've got lower amounts of dopamine already.
Speaker 2:Your estrogen is um vital for us producing dopamine so when the estrogen is going down or it's fluctuating, or hormones in general, but mainly the oestrogen. If your oestrogen is less than dopamine is even less, which is why in the perimenopause, your adhd symptoms get way, way worse. And suddenly you know all these structures and frameworks that you've had in your life, that which you've, which most of us have kind of made up and cobbled together without even knowing it. We've got through each day, but suddenly they, they stop working as well, and it's how these hormones affect us, and that also applies to things like pmdd and what does that look like?
Speaker 1:pmdd? What will it look like?
Speaker 2:pmdd is when it's like, it's like um, pms or premenstrual, you know, like when you feel rubbish each month, but again it's way, way, way worse. So you're, you know, you're you know, you just feel really, your feelings are really really extreme, so it's like PMS, but you know, with bells on. So I just known all my life that when, when, you know, I was leading up to getting my periods, when I was in that, that those fat, that phase before you get your period, that then I knew that I'd always felt really really dreadful Within, that never knew why I felt suicidal every month.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know and that came in tied in with your cycle. You could pin that down completely yeah, wow, okay is that?
Speaker 1:is that easily diagnosed, sarah? Is that kind of recognized by gps a lot, the pm, because I've heard people talk about it. But I I mean I've had varying conversations with gps, even just about my perimenopause, with them going at one point you're too young, when I was. Yeah, I think um, blood tests aren't quite enough. You need a couple more points on the proper test before. Anyway, I digress again, um, but I suppose, with kind of regards to the pmdd, is that widely recognized? The gps talking about that at the moment again?
Speaker 2:it's, it's, it's down to each gp.
Speaker 2:Some gps will recognize it, some don't. Some you know, some will you know. I read some really terrible stuff on social media posts where people have been told you know, really, really invalidated and gaslit by gps. Some gps are amazing. It's just how much they understand about neurodivergence, how much they understand about perimenopause and the menopause. And some of them don't. And some of them will tell us it's all in our heads and make us out to be crazy people. When you know we, you know the same way that, like with our children, that you're going to people and saying do you think they've got this?
Speaker 1:and they're going.
Speaker 2:No, no, no no, but in your gut you're like I know my child, yeah, and the same way that we know ourselves and is. Again, this is what makes me cross is that, as women, we're told that oh no, that's not right and oh it's. You know, I spent, I remember, going to the GP because I was so exhausted all the time and and and. Every day I just had to have a sleep for about 10 minutes and then I'd feel better again, but I couldn't kind of push through that exhaustion, mean I'm not when I was working, but but you know, and and I went to my GP. This is years and years ago.
Speaker 2:I went to my GP and said I don't know why I'm exhausted all the time. I didn't know if I had cancer or what was going on, and they did blood tests and they came back fine and they said, oh, it's just depression, that's what's causing it. But now, now I know this is linked with adhd, because I have inattentive adhd and my brain does not stop, you know, it's just going a million miles an hour from the minute I wake up to the minute I go to sleep and um, and that's why so many of us are so tired all the time. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you add on to that kind of the perimenopausal symptoms and menopause symptoms that that then exacerbates that. I think you get a double dose of that then, and I suppose there might be parents out there that are struggling at the moment and I often think it's a bit cruel in a way that actually, you know, often we look at teenage years as being quite a difficult time to support our kids, and then on top of that, a lot of us are at that age, depending on when we had our kids, but we are at that age when perimenopause can kick in for us. And then you start to think, you know, if you're not recognizing that's what it is, it's just because I'm a rubbish parent, or it's because I can't get on top of this, or and actually it's much more than that and especially it's trying to work out and recognizing that it could be. This is. It isn't just what you expect as a parent to feel so exhausted you can't get through a day that actually there could be something else going on in the background, and whether that's an ADHD diagnosis or whether that's, you know, perimenopause or both, that you don't actually know about. And that's really hard and I suppose it's thinking it's, it's knowing about it, and that's why I was really I was really keen to get you on, because to to hear people talk about it, and menopause and perimenopause now is being talked about a lot more and it's much more, and I've learned so much in the last couple of years just from you know celebrities around that we're talking about it and there's one in particular, I think, isn't there.
Speaker 1:But, um, you know hearing people talk about it. You know I remember my mum going through menopause, but she never really spoke about it. It wasn't a discussion. I didn't even really realize that it could be a big change for me. I just thought they just stopped. One day, hooray period went out the window. Great, when's that happening?
Speaker 1:but actually there's a whole lot more, and and it can last for so long yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, and, and it affects all of us differently. I've never had a hot flush, never, oh okay.
Speaker 2:But but it's affected me, you know, cognitively also. Like you know, I had a lot of joint pain, I've had heart palpitations, I mean they've, they've. They've got better after I started HRT, thankfully. But you know, it's protecting your body in so many ways when you know when the hormones are changing and once they're declining. But, yeah, it's like you said, I think our parents' generation they don't talk about it as much. It's like you said, I think our parents generation they don't talk about it as much.
Speaker 2:But also, you know just sort of kind of organizing your day around doing this, because the whole time, if you are, you know, supporting kids who are neurodivergent as well and and trying to get help for yourself. And at the moment, you know I've worked in the NHS for a long, long time, so I know the system. But it doesn't make it any easier when you're phoning up, you know. You know you've been told. You know you phone up to say whether it's you know for your kids or you know you're like who do I speak to? You're trying to get through, you're fighting. You know it was me. It was like trying to remember to phone up about you know, uh, whether it was, you know a review because my, my brilliant gp, they left the surgery, unfortunately. And then you're trying to just client, get somebody to review what, what medication you're on my? I was on testosterone and they took me off it, um, and you know I was trying to fight to get that back and then knowing who to then speak to to you know, if you yeah, it's an absolute minefield and no one's there helping you you're trying to get through to gp surgery and you're on the phone and you're 16th on the.
Speaker 2:You know, you know, and they're like you know all these things and it's just constant and it's this just exhausting battle where you know you're just surviving each day and trying to remember to you know, the gp surgeries. You know you're getting this message phone back at a at this time and then we'll do, you know, and we're going to remember to phone back at this time. Then you're in a queue. Then you, you know, for one space to get, you know to like to get my hrt reviewed, you know. Then you know you're 11th in the queue, whatever. Then you get through. Oh, that space has been taken and you've been waiting all that. You know, and it's just another thing and another hurdle and another hurdle, and that's that was what was truly awful for me certainly was that. You know you've just got so many things that you're trying to juggle and it's really, really, really hard yeah, in gp surgery.
Speaker 1:So do they always have somebody that is a gp, for example, or a nurse that specializes in kind of women's health? Well, you'd hope so, is that kind of there should be?
Speaker 2:but yes, okay, there definitely should be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so people could ring up the gp and ask to speak to somebody specific that has a skill set in that area. That's the theory.
Speaker 1:That's theory, yeah, okay, but in reality we know that well trying to get hold of a get a gp appointment is really difficult, let alone a specific gp yes, exactly and I think often really good ones are the ones that everyone, of course, is trying to get into, and then you can't get into them and the ones that you get like I've got this one, yeah, yeah, okay. So we're talking, obviously, about kind of um, menopause, perimenopause and adhd symptoms as well, but we've kind of you know, some of those things that we've talked about. You know, you don't necessarily have to be adhd to have experienced them as well. Perimenopause happens to all of us born women, um, at some point. But I suppose, um, what's what's kind of helped you, sarah, what's been useful for you around managing um, especially your emotional health and well-being, is where it boils down to, doesn't it? And if we're not supported as parents, if our emotional well-being is is not great, then how do we parent?
Speaker 1:um you know that becomes more difficult and more challenging and, like you say, we're more irritable or you're finding it more difficult. What kind of support can people get? Where can they get support? I mean, we talked about the GP briefly, but a bit maybe about what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah, thank you, and yeah, and can I say that there are some brilliant GPs out there as well. Um, for me, certainly, getting my HRT was the the biggest thing, because then you know that it was getting my hormone levels back within the remit of where they should be and then I could start kind of tackling, you know, my ADHD and I, and, and because my emotions were so dysregulated, I'm struggling so much with, you know, just getting a lot of tasks done each day to get that baseline of my hormones sorted first, rather than trying to tackle my ADHD, if that makes sense is getting that foundation sorted first of all.
Speaker 2:I know HRT isn't for everybody and I also appreciate some people can't take it for medical reasons, but for me was the the really, really important thing. Um, and again, as I say, getting a coach who understands to an adhd coaching is isn't a regulated um, um, uh, you know career pathways. It's not a regulated thing in in the world, in the UK and in the world. So anyone can say that they're an ADHD coach and you know, and people can do a lot of damage if they are, if they don't really know what they're doing, by just saying, oh, I've got experience of this doesn't mean that you're good at supporting other people and understanding, um, how this shows up for people. Um, so for me, just trade. I trained at the. You know a place called adco, which is the add coaching academy, which is known to be like one of the gold standard trainers in the world. So getting that and that's where my coach was from, you know, that's where they trained as well um, that's really good to know, isn't it?
Speaker 1:because parents you know, if we know what to ask for and we know what we kind of are looking for. There are certain trainings, it sounds like, that are more yeah, they're regulated or not, but they kind of have a better standard maybe yeah, yeah and that someone's actually had some training. They haven't just gone on. Do you know what?
Speaker 2:I'm going to set myself up as an adhd coach yeah, I know, I know, and certainly, um, uh, what was I going to say now? Um, yeah, so if you are looking for a coach, make sure you know you're asking people where they trained, how long the course was for. Do they get clinical supervision? You know what? What does that look like? Is there a website for where they train so you can check that out as well? That's really, really, really important, and if people have done it properly, they won't be worried about sharing this information with you.
Speaker 2:So you know, and so getting a coach really, really helped me as an ADHD specific coach. So this is somebody who understood, who understood ADHD and really understood how it showed up. And you know, I just didn't feel judged and I just felt really, really understood. Um, the other things for me, um, I mean, I'd stopped, pretty much stopped drinking alcohol anyway, because I'm, when I drink, I would overshare, and then I get really emotional and you know, and then I for dens afterwards I feel dreadful. So I stopped drinking alcohol completely because they're just, and also alcohol and the perimenopause are not friends at all. So cutting back or stopping alcohol, you know, was you know, that's really, really important what's the first era around the kind of the alcohol and perimenopause well, because it affects your sleep.
Speaker 2:It you know it will be affecting us. You go into the deeper layer of sleep where you don't get that rest, um, and then when you haven't slept properly, then that really, really affects your emotion. You know your again emotional regulation and how you're functioning cognitively, um, so that has a really big knock-on effect. With that as well, um and um, I mean exercise, which I know you know again being when you're adhd.
Speaker 2:You know very much like oh I need to exercise this amount every week, but then you don't do it and you can't do it and then you tell yourself you're rubbish and then you throw in the towel completely. So even a really small amount really helps, um. So I mean, we've, we've got a dog, so I do walk him um regularly, but often getting out in the fresh air can help if my brain's feeling a bit overwhelmed. Um and I, you know, and again, of course, nutrition and diet is really important, but again, that's that can be really, really hard as a parent because, um, you know, I've got one child who'll only eat a, really, because you know I've got one child who'll only eat a really, really small amount of food. So it's very, it's great, people saying, eat this and eat these very neat nuts and eat blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:But if you're, you know, most of us in the UK we can't live where we're, you know, buying whatever. You know, avocados and quinoa, every day of the week. Most of us are just trying to get by. And if you've got a child, you know one of my kids, for months all she would eat was, um, yorkshire puddings, bought Yorkshire puddings, that's all she'd eat. You know, yeah, you know. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:This is real life for so many of us where you're thinking what nutrition can I get in them? This will help them, but they you know one of my just trying to get have protein is virtually impossible. So you know, it's kind of, you know, you're kind of going with what you've got. So it's again nutrition is really, really important for us and for your brain function and, and you know, having that protein to help you know, when we have these dips, when we feel really, really hungry, but it's, you know, I, I know it's like when you've you've tried everything possible to try and get your child to eat stuff and they don't eat it and they all they want to do is have chocolate and crisps and you know.
Speaker 1:And then you end up cooking like three different meals, don't you? Because I'll cook. I've got one that's very particular about what he will and won't eat, and we've only got kind of about four or five meals that he'll eat on repeat and I don't want to eat them if I eat them I'd be the size of the back end of a bus, you know, and I'm meant to be keeping my weight down with arthritis but you know that's not helping um, and you know, I get to the point I cook their meal and then I think I can't be bothered now to cook myself something.
Speaker 1:I'm so exhausted. By the end of the day I've cooked them a meal and then I end up thinking I'm not going to eat that because it's not good for me. But then I end up eating like half the pasta that's been left in the bowl because I just think I'm really hungry and I can't bother to cook anything. I only eat that small bit, because it's only a small bit, and then an hour later I think I'm hungry again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I'm looking for something else and I'm worried that I'll have a piece of toast and think, well, it's just one piece of toast, but I haven't really thought about pasta that I've just eaten as well. So now I've just had the biggest carb intake, with nothing about the fruit and veg that's still sat in the fridge. I've got it I just haven't, I haven't cooked it. Um, and like you say, you know, real life kicks in, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:especially when we're stressed as parents or you know we're going through tricky times with our kids is how do we look after ourselves? And that's a lot of the work that I do is is looking at. You know, supporting parents to be able to look after ourselves, which we are notoriously bad at doing. Um, and you know, when you add in that, maybe diagnoses and perimenopause, you know, you can see why it is a recipe for a disaster at some point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and trying and trying to remember to eat at certain times as well. And I mean, like last night, I cooked because one of my children is vegetarian, so I did a veggie veggie chili, and one of my daughters won't eat the chili, but she does have the rice and she'll have grated cheese on it, so we kind of have the same sort of meal. Yeah, that doesn't always play out like that and sometimes they can be a bit random. But also just some one thing I've learned, as well as trying to make sure I've got protein around which I can have if I'm having a dip as well, like just having boiled eggs or scrambled eggs for breakfast or something like that which is easy to cook, and then I I can. You know it's not and it doesn't feel like I'm doing something really, really big.
Speaker 2:Yeah like you said, said and you end up sort of, and I know, and I used to think like years ago I'd be like, oh, these parents cook separate meals for their children. I was like God, they know they eat when they'll eat what they're given.
Speaker 1:And now I'm that parent who's just saying I learned the hard way with that one Cause I sent my child to school thinking right, school dinners, this is going to sort him out. I'm not sending lunch, he will eat because he will be hungry. So I've got a neurotypical son. That worked a treat. Yes, my autistic son, which I didn't realise was autistic at the time yeah, stopped eating. Yeah, stopped eating, and by the time he got home he was so foul because, of course, he hadn't eaten since. Well, yeah, half past seven that morning it's now four o'clock in the afternoon that in the end I just thought I'm sending back lunch. Yeah, I guess. And they, they will, they, they will, kind of, I think, the kids around the eating. It's so difficult, isn't it? Because you just think, oh, they'll eat eventually when they're really hungry, and they don't, and that, and also.
Speaker 2:I think the other thing I've realized is that people say that because that's what happens for them. So if you say they'll eat when they're hungry, what they mean is, I'll eat when I'm hungry, but with our neurodivergent kids, no, they won't, like you said, and they would just go nope, door shut. And that's not how their brains work and that's what people don't understand. Is that neurodivergent kids, people like, even in schools, people are telling our kids what they need. They're telling us what our kids need. We know what our kids need and our kids know what they need. And that's what we're not being listened to because maybe it is, maybe it is too much hard work for you know it kind of costs schools a lot of money. It's gonna, you know whatever that is in that, in that system. But you know, that's one thing I've we've really leaned into as parents is that we know our children. Yeah, we know them more than anyone else, yeah, and and you know, and you give, you give less of a toss when you get to our age as well, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't care, I'm advocating for my child. And I'm saying this now, whereas years ago I would have gone, oh okay, and gone along with what they said, and I'm like, no, that's not washing with me anymore and I wonder whether there's a similar.
Speaker 1:I'm trying. I'm seeing a link there, but you know, for us as um you know, going through perimenopause is that we. It's trusting what we've, because a lot of time I speak to me I knew something wasn't right.
Speaker 1:I knew I felt different, but kind of being told oh, it's just this, or it's just, oh, don't worry about it, or you're just tired, or you know it's what's going on with the kids and that you, you know, like we touched on earlier, you get used to kind of going oh, you know, it's just me, it's not. What I'm seeing in the kids is not the issue. It's me that actually around the perimenopause, that we do the same, that we think, oh, it's just me, it's nothing. You know, this can't be it. I'm not getting hot flushes, so it can't be perimenopause. You know I'm not getting this textbook symptom. And actually deep down, when we stop and pause for a bit, we often know there is, it is different and things don't feel right. Yes, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:I suppose what it's led me on to thinking about was if you could go back to your younger self. Sarah, and you know, hindsight's a wonderful thing, you know shoulda, coulda, woulda. But if you could go back to your younger self, is there a piece of advice you could? You would give yourself if you went back?
Speaker 2:so is that me going back knowing I had ADHD? Yes, right. So I'm going back to my younger self, and my younger self now knows they've got ADHD.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't know they've got the ADHD. They don't know. Oh, I was young.
Speaker 2:I was young a really long time when, when it was, but then the model for ADHD you know, didn't even include women and girls, I suppose. Ooh, it's a really, really hard one, isn't it?
Speaker 1:And maybe you're thinking as you're a parent. You know, as you became a parent and you were struggling being ADHD. That you didn't know. Yeah, I guess it is.
Speaker 2:It's about trusting your gut, isn't it? And and and remembering that you are enough and you know it's. It's. It would be finding it's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a really really hard one yeah, trusting your gut if you feel something isn't right, but it's having that courage to advocate for yourself. And you know, and certainly growing up always feeling I was wrong, that I didn't fit in, that I was always on the periphery of everything, yeah, that's. That's a really hard one, because if my younger self still didn't know it, you know, you can still say you are OK. If my younger self still didn't know it, you know, you can still say you are okay. But you're still growing up in a world, if you, you know, if you're still growing up in a world where everything is telling you that you're wrong and you need to mask and change and be like what you think everyone else is like, whereas they're probably all doing the same thing. So it's all a big farce really.
Speaker 1:I think, it'd be interesting what you just said as well, because I think I've had quite a lot of people on the podcast talk about, you know, being able to advocate basically and and say this is what I need and you know, if only I could have gone back and said this, that or the other. But actually we often have that conversation on the podcast about but how easy is that? I think that's something that comes with age and time and sometimes it's personality. You know, some people just that's just not their personality and to do that is really really difficult um so it's finding a way to do that.
Speaker 1:But sometimes you almost kind of need to go through a process, if that makes sense, to be able to, to learn those skills and and be able to do it yeah, um, yeah, maybe definitely. Maybe you would go back and not change anything. Maybe that was just something that you had to go through yeah, yeah, I mean it's certainly you know.
Speaker 2:It certainly wasn't fun growing up, so you know. And then you know the family situation I was in wasn't great at all. So yeah, it would be lovely to change all of that, but but then if I still wasn't aware of what it was and I couldn't change, the situation around you and in the 1970s and the 1980s, you know, it was just to just get on with it mentality and it was, you know.
Speaker 2:And our parents now I realize my parents one of them 100% was autistic ADHD and the other one I strongly suspect was ADHD I'm well, I'm very, very sure that that they were that you know. So you're growing up in this weirdly chaotic, you know household which is normal yeah, yeah, yeah, that's your normal, so you know. So that's that's a really really hard thing, but I guess, yeah, trusting your gut, and just that's a really important one.
Speaker 2:I think, I think probably there were a lot of things I did because when I was younger, that I did work, because I'd be like, oh, that's yeah, because that's what people do, so I'd just go along and do it. And then I'd be like, oh, why did I do that? And and now I wish, yeah, I wish I trusted my gut more and been able to be like no, I don't want to do this. Or you know, and that's the, you know that that's when it got really dangerous and I guess I'd yeah, I don't. I had an eating disorder for 15 years, a very serious eating disorder from when I was a teenager. I I'd love to have changed that.
Speaker 1:That would have been nice. Yeah, tough time, tough time.
Speaker 2:But again, there's links and there's so many links now with ADHD and autism, with eating disorders and disordered eating, which, yeah, I'm aware of now, but at least at our age, now that we we are aware of this and we we can um support our kids around around this as much as we can, and doing the job that you do as well.
Speaker 1:Working with parents, you know, maybe when they, you know, are in those moments when they're questioning it, when we didn't get that support is hopefully that's what we're now providing and you know you're providing in your, with what you're doing. Well, if you've got a parent at the moment, say, for example, might be thinking, oh, I think I probably could be, maybe adhd, um, and maybe isn't that kind of perimenopausal thing, and thinking, actually it could be, which is it it could? Is it one or the other, or is it both? Um, what piece of advice would you give to them as a parent at the moment? What would, what would you say to them is the most important thing to do at the moment?
Speaker 2:what they're thinking about. They're thinking about what asking for an assessment you mean, or they're just thinking, not?
Speaker 1:necessarily just, but just. They're having a tough time at the moment and they're querying whether they could be um adhd, whether this is perimenopause. What would be kind of your advice to them at the moment?
Speaker 2:um, well, if they're thinking it might perimenopause I've got the downloads on my website which can show the difference between you know.
Speaker 2:It can show how hormones affect you with adhd really good for people to look at that's uh, that's one thing that you know you, you can look at the differences and how you're affected and how your cycle affects you and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:So then it becomes clearer and you can download those and you can take them to the GP. If you say to the G, you know again, as a kind of validation tool, that if you say to them I've got these symptoms, and if they go, no, no, no, you can say well, well, I've got these here and this shows that I tick these boxes and yeah, happening and and you know, and you're looking at what symptoms you had when you were younger. Because, of course, women and girls present very, very differently to the standard. You know stereotypes, um, you know little boy bouncing off the world walls. Because girls present much more. They're much more sort of daydreamers, much more anxiety, much more, uh, high achievers. You know real people pleasers, that sort of thing. So it's looking and having that wider reading about understanding how adhd shows up for women and girls.
Speaker 1:Um, I can't remember the other question you said yeah, that was it just kind of a kind of menopause and adhd. But that sounds like a really useful um download that that we'll definitely put in the show notes so people can find that, just to have a think about being able to pull out what might be what, because that's when it's really complicated, isn't it which, when we're trying to go, well, is this this or is it that? And in my experience, the gps, they're kind of the the perimenopause bits. If we can't put a name on anything else for it, that must be what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, and you kind of have to wait to go through all these tests and you know and tick that no, it's not, that it's not that. Well, okay, this is what we're left with. It probably is, um, and meanwhile you've just waited, however long yeah, yeah, yeah, that's really hard, so that might be really helpful for people.
Speaker 1:Um, just finishing off here, sarah. Where can people find you if they're kind of interested in kind of being in contact with you or maybe working alongside you? Where can they find you and what are you doing at the minute?
Speaker 2:what am I doing at the moment? So, so, at the moment, yeah, so I'm doing my adhd coaching for paramandibles of women, and I'm also, uh, qualified as an adult autism assessor as well. So I do that, I work, I'm still working as a nurse. I'm I'm doing that as well at the moment, um so um, my, my website is wwwsarahwest-adhdcom. My email is hello at sarahwest-adhdcom, so that's how people can contact me if they want to. I'm on LinkedIn as well, so, if you want to find me there, and I'm on Facebook as well. So I think that's everything.
Speaker 1:And we'll put all those, those ways that you can contact Sarah in the show notes so you can reach out to Sarah if you want to and if you've got any more questions. But other than that, it just leaves me to say thank you ever so much for coming on. Thank you for coming on and talking to me.
Speaker 1:This was, as I say, say, one that I was looking forward to, um, and it's been good to talk about it and and really interesting and that link around adhd as well that you know I haven't kind of looked down so much, I've been more kind of just around the perimenopause and the menopause. But looking in around that adhd and, as you say, kind of the diagnostics around women and adhd is poor in the fact that they don't get diagnosed and often at this point in our lives, when we hit perimenopause and menopause, that then becomes those difficulties become more exacerbated and more pronounced and make you feel like you're losing the plot. Um, you're not and hopefully this, this podcast, will help a bit with that and maybe send you in a direction, a different direction, that you maybe send you in a direction, a different direction, that you can get some help for that. So thank you ever so much for joining me, sarah. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much, liz thanks for having me on thank you for listening and choosing to spend your time with me today. If you enjoyed this episode, please do share it with a friend, who might just feel reassured to know that they aren't on their own. And if you've got a moment, a quick rating or review helps others to find the podcast too. If you want to stay in the loop with the podcast updates and all things Untypical OT, just drop me an email and I'd be really happy to add you to the list. Take care and I'll see you soon.